Tithing Challenge

AMEN Brother Soulman....PREACH IT! Those are the questions that many Baptist preachers(and others)simply can't(or won't)answer.I don't want to imply here that ANYBODY is crooked although I'm sure there are some that may be.I personally believe most Pastors that preach and teach Old Testament tithing are simply continuing in the tradition they were taught in seminary or that they learned in the churches they came up in AND NEVER QUESTIONED.A New Testament Church should be administered and run on FAITH in this dispensation,Not on an Old Testament Law that applied to the nation of Israel and the Levitical priesthood under the Old Covenant that passed away.We should GIVE as God prospers us and as we purpose in our hearts between Us as believers and our Lord...and do it with a cheerful heart as unto the Lord.THAT is the teaching of the Holy Spirit as outlined in the New Testament.I also firmly believe that the Pastor who labors over the flock God has called him to oversee should be well supported and taken care of.God calls His people to FAITH...and faithfulness.

Greg Sr.

 

Again...chipsgirl....God Bless your willing heart..AMEN SISTER....BUT...give as God directs you out of a willing heart..not because ANYBODY has put you under any "law" and told you you "must" in order to "receive" a blessing.THAT smacks of this heretical "Name it and Claim it","give to get" theology that so deceives many today.God loves a surrendered,cheerful heart that gives out of true gratitude for "so great a salvation".God Bless You sister.

Greg Sr.

 

Chipsgirl,
YOU go for it!!
don't let others try to talk you out of it by claiming theological hogwash . Don't let anyone side track you but rather stay the course.
God said " try me and see if I will not open up the windows of heaven and pour out a blessing that you will not have room enough to recieve.
The expression "windows of heaven" is the same expression God used when Noah got in the Ark ane the windows of heaven opened. Tha means an abundance of God's blessing is coming your way.
Let the proof be in the puddin. On mothers day you can let us all know how it worked.

 

This and many other questions concerning the law of tithe can be answered thusly:

The Law of tithe applied to those Israelites (and their seed) who had been recipients of the promise of the "land flowing with milk and honey".

Only those landowners and their descendants who were blessed with the products of their apportionment of this "promised land" (HaEretz) were to give a tenth of the fruits of their labor back to God.

Disenfranchised and/or wage-earning Israelites were not required to tithe.

HankD

 

Good points all,HankD.

Greg Sr.

 

Soulman, that was probably the best post I've ever read on this board!!

 

atestring...nobody (at least not me) is trying to discourage chipsgirl from faithful G I V I N G .We're just trying to make the point that she should do it out of a willing,cheerful heart as unto the Lord...NOT due to an obligation to Old Testament LAW.God owns it all.He'll lead the willing surrendered heart in what to do.

Greg Sr.(I actually had checks BOUNCE trying to be faithful to the "tithe" years ago.)

 

Chipsgirl,

God will honor your faithfulness in this matter. Don't necessarily look for it in material manifestations- He doesn't always work like that. The tithe is a great starting place in your giving to the Lord. I believe you will be greatly blessed by this act of obedience, and I believe you will come to love the opportunity of giving unto God your offering- you will look forward to it!

As I have stated before regarding this issue, those who "preach the principle away" are most always the ones who are not practicing it. Those teachings in Scripture that really hit close to home for us, seem to always have a spiritual loophole somewhere.

Chipsgirl, trust God, be a good steward of your finances, and enjoy giving unto Him Who is altogether lovely!

 

I think many have abused the concept of "tithing". And I agree that our motivation in the church should be giving from a cheerful heart to God as an act of worship.

But I think on the flip side of that many people try to claim "no tithe", "tithe is an OT concept" simply to justify in their minds their lack of stewardship. As a pastor I have talked to many folks who have the concept of "if our income ever gets to a certain point, then we will be able to give faithfully." And as a way of justifying that they use the basis that the tithe is an OT model. Now I am not saying that is the case with anyone who has posted on this subject. Just sharing some thoughts from the flip side...

Again, Chipsgirl God bless you for your faithful heart. Give to the Lord with a faithful and cheerful heart!

 

If I were to pick one of the old testament offerings that mirrors G I V I N G in the new testament, I’d pick the free will offering that was collected to build the tabernacle. Moses collected so much stuff he had to tell them to stop giving!

I personally believe that tithing is an old testament principle that has absolutely no application to the new testament church. But the tything instructions in Duet 14 make it look very inviting!

According to Duet 14, I can plant a garden, tithe myself from it for three years (eating at a designated location ); or i can redeem the crop and buy whatever i want with the money. At the END of the THIRD year, i give to others.

22 "You shall truly tithe all the increase of your grain that the field produces year by year. 23 And you shall eat before the Lord your God, in the place where He chooses to make His name abide, the tithe of your grain and your new wine and your oil, of the firstborn of your herds and your flocks, that you may learn to fear the Lord your God always. 24 But if the journey is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, or if the place where the Lord your God chooses to put His name is too far from you, when the Lord your God has blessed you, 25 then you shall exchange it for money, take the money in your hand, and go to the place which the Lord your God chooses. 26 And you shall spend that money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen or sheep, for wine or similar drink, for whatever your heart desires; you shall eat there before the Lord your God, and you shall rejoice, you and your household. 27 You shall not forsake the Levite who is within your gates, for he has no part nor inheritance with you.


1. 28 "At the end of every third year you shall bring out the tithe of your produce of that year and store it up within your gates. 29 And the Levite, because he has no portion nor inheritance with you, and the stranger and the fatherless and the widow who are within your gates, may come and eat and be satisfied, that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hand which you do.

 

But pastor this isn't this exactly what our Christian freedom allows.

Freedom needs no justification...

2 Corinthians 9
7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

The consequence of the quantity/quality of our giving is in the preceding verse:

6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.

We can use verse 6 effectively without preaching the "tithe".

HankD

 

Just do what God leads YOU to do and don't compare it to the rest of us(and don't worry about what any of us think).

AMEN, Gregory Perry Sr.

God loves a cheerful giver..
Whether it's 5%, 10% or even 20%
HOW it's given is the important thing.

 

chipsgirl, I don't think there is anyone here that doesn't support you in giving what is on your heart. But there are some things, possibly in what your pastor said, that threw up red flags to some of us. For example, you said that "my pastor said if we have faith in the Lord then He will make it work." This sounds like motivating someone based on the results rather than saying do it because God said so. Also you said "He told us to try it until Mother's Day and if at that point, we feel the Lord failed us then we can quit tithing." I guess I just can't fathom him putting that in the terms of someone feeling the Lord has failed. God is faithful, regardless how we all "feel" by Mother's Day. This even seems like a little psychological manipulation, thought probably not consciously so - who, even in their confusion of thinking it isn't working, is going to stand up and say God has failed and I'm quiting?

There are always some who will suggest that the motivation for teaching that the tithe is an Old Testament concept is covetousness. No doubt that is true of some. But the flip side is that some pastors/churches preach the tithe out of covetousness as well. Wrong motives on either side does not settle the question. The Word of God does. Some teachers of tithing make the mistake, whether consciously or not, of teaching that the FIRST TEN PERCENT of our income belongs to God. Nonsense!! ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of our income, and everything we have and are, belongs to God. We are stewards of it all. It's not just about where and how we give 10%, but what we do with the other 90% as well. That's the New Testament doctrine of stewardship.

 

In our home, I am the one that writes the checks and makes sure the bills get paid on time. One major trap that I found myself getting into was paying my bills first and seeing if there is anything left over for the Lord. I have changed my thinking and have disciplined myself to write the first check to the Lord before even looking at the bills that need to be paid. If something needs to wait until next pay day it wouldn't be the Lord. It is amazing how the Lord blesses and all of the bills get paid on time?!?! I don't always know how, but I know who!!

 

Does anyone want a REAL challenge on this? It would need to be a separate thread, of course, if we do this. If there is a reasonable number-- offhand, I would estimate at least 10 of us-- who take the challenge and firmly commit to count every penny of "increase" and give at least 10% to our church, with weekly reports of what is happening, like the most positive thing ['blessing'] of the week or what problems or tragedy we may have, in addition to more or less 'increase.' We would need to identify ourselves as a believer in the Malachi concept of tithing = blessing, as a believer that this is not for NT Christians, or if we have never made up our minds about it. We would have to be open to being 'cross-examined' on what we report, in order to show that we are not just seeing the events in our lives with partiality to what we already believe about this, as well as to defend against this charge. This could get to be rough stuff, but we have that anyway on this board with KJVO v. MV's, Calvinism, v. Arminianism, for examples. Since we have moderators, they can do what their 'job' already is as far as allowing or disallowing what questions we ask.

Summing up, if we agree to take the challenge, we agree to:
__State our position (if any) on the subject of tithing = blessing for NT Christians.
__State that we did (or did not) give at least 10% of our increase of the previous week (income + any other gain, converted to $$ if necessary) [we need not state our income or the value or anything we get; just if we 'tithed' on it].
__State the most noted "blessing" (at least one) of the previous week.
__State the worst thing that happened to us personally (not specifically if we see it as unmentionable, but still categorized in some way) in the previous week.
__To answer proper cross-examination on anything we report, while assuming the right to cross-examine others (but not having to answer the same question twice, badger or be badgered, et al)
__ To continue these weekly reports and give a compilation the week after Mother's Day and state our conclusions.

Does this challenge sound fun, uplifting, eduational, dangerous, or what?

 

I was in a church where one man gave 90 percent of his income and others were being given to. Some had their college paid for. That church today has never had one single financial problem.
I believe giving is to equal the field in a sense. It is to help providfe for the needs of the church which includes all kinds of ministries. Those ministries include such things as helping those who are unable to give. If we strap people with the tithe business we tie them down for the very same things the religionists whom Jesus called hypocrites. But when we teach people giving we teach them to come before God and search their hearts for what they should give not ten percent.

If a person makes $100,000 ten percent is very little compared to what is left. But if a person makes $12,000 he has little left on which to live. In some areas of the US, rents and payments would be more than most people make.

 

I learned a while back that Jews today do not tithe. They, of all people, know that the tithe was to go to the Levites for the work of the temple.

As no one knows who the Levites are today, with the geneologies being destroyed in 70 AD, there is no reason for the tithe.

It was because the Levites had no inheritance in the land that they were to receive the tithe.

Jews today pay a tax on their seat in the synogogue.

If anyone wishes to tithe, by all means do so.
God will bless you.
I believe he will bless 5% or 20% as well.

MR

 

This issue of old testament law does not give the Christian an excuse not to give. Please do not infer that it is a license not to support your ministry. The man of God should be supported and we should give sacrificially and from our heart.

It is the approach to giving that I question. I dont want anybody teaching my child that she is robbing God by not giving a certain percentage of her money.

I want her taught that she should give because it is the right thing to do. Preachers rob themselves and sound like money grubbers when they strong arm people into 10%. Then ask for special donations for this and that.

The difference is that we can give whatever the Lord lays on our heart. We can give it to our church and whomever else we are touched by.

Don't tell me that I am out of Gods will for not putting my name on the envelope or that I am a thief. It is my business and God's how much I give.

You go Chipsgirl! Give cheerfully . Just understand that you are doing it out of love for your savior and not out of obligation or guilt.

 

Several points I'd like to offer:

1)ALCOTT...your challenge sounds intriguing but probably NOT a good idea in here considering the diverse and argumentative nature of many here on the BB.That would probably open a BIG can of worms.
2)In Luke 11:42,Luke 18:10-14 and Matt:23:23,Jesus "blessed out" the Scribes and Pharisees for their hypocrisy and legalism in regards to their "tithing"or giving.Remember that this was before the Lords Death,Burial,and Resurrection and the advent of the present age of Grace.They were STILL under the law.These verses Do NOT apply directly to the church except to teach that faith and compassion for our fellow believers is more important than the "letter" of the law.I'm sure there are probably a few other lessons I have yet to farm from those passages as well.
3)The Apostle Paul set the precedent for the church and ALL New Testament Believers in 2 Corinthians 9 with the KEY verse being vs.7 where he said(under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost)"Every man according as he purposeth in his heart,so let him give;not grudgingly,or of necessity:for God loveth a cheerful giver."Paul had ample opportunities given his Apostolic calling to preach and teach TITHING....but he never did.His teaching supports the conclusion that Tithing is NOT a NT ordinance but rather that GIVING is a matter of SOUL LIBERTY between the individual believer and the Lord.(hummmm...isn't that a Baptist distinctive?)

All that being said I would contend that Jesus himself set the rules for giving in our present age in Matthew 6 when he taught that we should do or "give" our "alms" SECRETLY.......and Paul supported THAT principle when he said in 2 Corinthians 9:7 that giving should be 'as a man purposeth in his heart'...a personal,secret,private thing between each believer and his God.
My own pastor reads and posts on this board and knows what I believe about this even though we don't necessarily agree on all points about it.He is a good and Godly man who I respect tremendously but we generally agree to disagree on some things.That's part of what "soul liberty" is all about.When I GIVE to my church or any other need or organization God leads me to give to I do it ANONYMOUSLY between myself and the Lord.I'll never see a "statement of giving/tithing" from my church because the only record of it is written in HEAVEN...as it should be.It is God's business...no one elses.I take that very seriously and if anything,it bothers me that I can't give more than I do.Since God owns 100% of it ALL we are called to be faithful STEWARDS of that which God blesses us with and I dare say we ALL fail in that to some degree.I will sum this up with the following...which I hope God will find us all faithful to when we face Him at the Judgement Seat of Christ:
The Lord Jesus said:
Matt.6:19-21 "Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth,where moth and rust doth corrupt,and where thieves break through and steal:But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven,where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt,and where thieves do not break through nor steal:For where your treasure is,there will your heart be also.

Brothers and Sisters...Give as much as you can as often as you can and do it gladly and keep your eyes open for others in need.We should definitely also support our local churches as much as possible as that's where we go for fellowship and the teaching and preaching of the Word of God.It takes money to run those places and God wants us to support them and the men of God called to minister to us.It's just NOT a tithe.God doesn't expect it of you and nobody has a right to demand it of you.God Bless You All.

Greg Sr.