tithing??? Should we?

[Jailminister]

Daniel david said:

First of all, why do you keep calling me a pharisee? Does that give you the extra boost it takes to actually post this stuff?

1. 7 laws? Let us see here: general law (written on hearts of all people), mosaic law (given exclusively to the jews), and the law of Christ (which is binding on the New Covenant people). Hmmmm. Yep, 1 + 1 + 1 = 7. Flawless.

2. So, Christ fulfilled 1/3 or 1/7 (depending on your meanings) of the law. Is that it? So, did Christ not fulfill the civil law? Was he disobedient to the civil law? What about the so called moral law? Did Christ fail at that too?

You know, the civil and moral and ceremonial law all demanded a death penalty. You are against the death penalty. Well, at least you are consistent.

3. It was an act of obedience for the Jews under the old covenant. The old covenant is called the ministry of death. Who has their head in what sand now?

4. Nope. It was a way of saying that they believe God is faithful. God does not require us to give 10 percent to a church to prove he is faithful today. If you have doubts though, I can send you some of my tapes that I recently preached out of Romans 8.

5. Quite honestly, after reading this rubbish, you are right. I have no desire to continue reading your stuff. After the discussion about capital punishment and political issues, I can see you have no desire to conform to Scripture. Instead, you choose an expedient way of using Scripture to your own detriment. That is tragic, but it isn't like you haven't been shown the truth.

6. You asked about the natural laws. I gave you a text on the natural laws. If you are still confused.

In answer to your last question, I am all for supporting the church. You are wrong to impose a 10% standard (even though the O.T. tithe demanded more than that so you are inconsistent again).

Ok I will quit calling you a pharisee. Just open your mind.
1)Ok I will list them for you. Natural Law (things like gravity, etc.) It is still around and is for everybody. Economic Law
Things like if you don't work you don't eat, you work you earn, etc. These are still in effect and are for everyone. Criminal Law These are still around and for everyone, but they do change from nation to nation and from time to time. Civil Law These also are still around and they do change form time to time and from nation to nation. Moral Law These always have been, even befor the 10 Commandments. These will always be and are for everyone. Spiritual Law These are also for everyone due to the fact that everyone is a spiritual being. People can deny it, but it is still a fact. Ceremonial Law These are the ones that were reserved for the the Jews, that were fulfilled by Jesus Christ and His grace. I pray that that will help you understand.
2) You 2nd point is answered if you read the above. Civil law and criminal law can change in different societies. Moral Law is just what it is. A guideline that we should strive to live in order to be at peace with God.
3)I am not going to totally disagree with your 3rd point, because Jesus did remove the weights of the ceremonial law that had been passed down, then added to by the religious leaders during the 400 years of silence before Jesus came on the scene.
4)Required, humm, Jesus mercy does not require the man of God to preach, but it is highly recommended. Jesus mercy does not tell us to help the poor and the widow, but it is highly suggested. You see my point I hope. It is about pleasing God. Perhaps I can send you one of my tapes.
5)It may be rubbish to you, but it is something to consider, before just throwing it out. You know, you may not have it all figured out yet.
6)I gave you enough about natural law to consider. I will read any scripture you have though. I am always willing to listen to someone elses opinion.

I know we disagree on some issues, But I hope we can agree to be brothers in Christ by treating each other kinder. I apologize if I have offended you in anyway. I know that sometimes we all get a little heated on some discussion, but if you are a brother inChrist, then I love you in Christ and respect you opinion. Have a Great week end.

 

[TWade]

Economic Law
Things like if you don't work you don't eat, you work you earn, etc. These are still in effect and are for everyone.

Where are you living?

 

[Jailminister]

In Texas. Do you not agree that that is a law that God placed us all under. I know man can violates any of the laws but they are still His.

 

[LauraB]

Just one question should clear up the issue with tithes.

Who do you believe, a human who wrote a book on why you don't need to tithe or Gods infalible word?

Back in Biblical time, poor people didn't have money to tithe with so they tithe with their first crop and other things.
God owns 10% of what we make. It is not OURS to give to God, it is already His. What you then give to God is yoru offering, what ever God has lead you to give.

I don't know why this has to be such an issue. Ask God and He shall give you an answer. Or take your lifes instruction manual and find out what it says in there. ( IE; Bible)

But there should be no issue. Give to Gid what is rightfully His, period, end of story.

I would have to agree with Twade... We must look at the heart. Some are in a situation where they cvan give only 5 % and some could reasonavly give 50%. Give according to your ability and the leading of the Lord. Remember, our Lord gave His all. I have always tithed as a baseline... but not out of legal requirement, out of love.

I do not agree with you on this point. 10% is Gods, not 5% or 3% or what you can afford. 10% frst of all is not ours to give. God owns every bit of it.
Here is a small testamony;
I am a housewife, but I do get a small paycheck from a very small home business. I have bills coming out my ears. 10% is Gods, I give my offering on top and support missions. There have been many times that I have had a bill due in a few days and struggled with the fact that if I give the money up how will my bills get paid? After praying about it God always tell me to trust and give. So I do. I can say that NEVER have any of my bills ever been late and they always get paid. I don't know sometimes where the money comes from, but God provides it for me. Be faithful in your tithe and offering and He will provide for you everytime.

[ May 02, 2004, 11:57 PM: Message edited by: LauraB ]

 

[Alcott]

Originally posted by LauraB:
I don't know sometimes where the money comes from, but God provides it for me. Be faithful in your tithe and offering and He will provide for you everytime.

I suppose the money just appears miraculously? You're not very cognizant if you really don't know where it comes from. And I have done a statistical test of hyposthesis which showed that whether I tithe or not does not change the tendency of financial balance.

 

[JeffM]

Hi Laura,

The book I am reading does nothing but help explain God's word regarding tithing using scripture from the Bible itself.

From what I am understanding, tithing is an Old Testament law and since Jesus took the old law with him to the cross, then we are no longer required to tithe.

His argument is this: Since we are no longer bound by the law, then you just can't pick one of the OT laws without taking all of them.

God is not some Godfather demanding 10% payment or else he will hold back his blessings. That would make him a vengeful God, not a loving God.

I don't mind giving an offering out of thanksgiving, but I find comfort knowing God doesn't demand it. This is Grace.

I guess I am in the minority when I say that over the last two years, I tithed more than 10% and I am worse off now financially than I was before.

I am learning to depend on God through faith, not on how much money I give to the church. This has been a valuable lesson to me. Just as he provides for the birds, so he will provide for me, because of my Faith and because he loves me unconditionally.



Jeff

 

[LauraB]

I am learning to depend on God through faith, not on how much money I give to the church. This has been a valuable lesson to me. Just as he provides for the birds, so he will provide for me, because of my Faith and because he loves me unconditionally.

I agree with you on this fact. God is unconditional in His love , but we are to take care of our local assembly. God commands us to be Faithful in our tithes and our offerings. Just as He commands us to witness, obey His laws, and to be good Christians to one and other. I am sure if I went out and murdered someone just on teh fact that I know no matter what God loves me and will still bestow blessings upon me, I would be just plain dumb.

This subject of tithing has come up so many times before. Ok how about this, just "omit" the word "Tithe" and just be faitful to your local church. It is so simple but people want to argue the fact about what to give and what to not give. As if looking for a way out. Pray and ask God what He wants you to give and there you will find your answer. Not from anyone here on teh Baptist Board or anywhere in book. Let God lead you.

In Christ
Laura

 

[LauraB]

Alcott
Active Member
Member # 5059

posted May 03, 2004 03:07 AM
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quote:
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Originally posted by LauraB:
I don't know sometimes where the money comes from, but God provides it for me. Be faithful in your tithe and offering and He will provide for you everytime.
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I suppose the money just appears miraculously? You're not very cognizant if you really don't know where it comes from. And I have done a statistical test of hyposthesis which showed that whether I tithe or not does not change the tendency of financial balance.
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I see you are trying to get a rise out of me and it won't work. Sometimes yes the money just appears! Sometimes it is from other means, all I know is God provides for me. If He is not providing for you I would pray about that and try to find out why. I have heard numerous testamonies of how God has always provided for His people in that way.

whether I tithe or not does not change the tendency of financial balance.

Then something is off. Maybe not enough faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. I know that I am always on the edge of financial poverty, and He always pulls me out.

Amen for a wonderful faithful and loving God.

In Christ,
Laura

 

[Alcott]

I see you are trying to get a rise out of me and it won't work.

At least you rose to respond.

Sometimes yes the money just appears!

Do you have a videotape with 'realtime' clock seconds posted of when that money "just appears"? Or do you mean somebody slips it into our purse, under your door, or hides it and sends you a treasure map?

I have heard numerous testamonies of how God has always provided for His people in that way.

Is this like the 'testimony' of the old lady I once heard, who claimed that because of faithfully tithing her small income from working in the cotton mill (one of the few places to work in that little town), that she "only missed 6 days in 14 years because of being sick"? If she was trying to play herself up as some kind of proof of Malachi 3, it does not work to a thinking person, as she had nothing like 'storehouses that could not contain' all that wealth. And also, why would God work so incompletely as to still allow her to be sick enough to miss work those 6 days? The lengths people may go to boast about how faithful they are and what proof of supernatural power they espouse can be comical.

I know that I am always on the edge of financial poverty, and He always pulls me out.

One wonders why He doesn't keep you out of that spot in the first place.

 

[LauraB]

Alcott,
You need to get a life.

In Jesus Name, AMEN

 

[Jailminister]

alcott said

Is this like the 'testimony' of the old lady I once heard, who claimed that because of faithfully tithing her small income from working in the cotton mill (one of the few places to work in that little town), that she "only missed 6 days in 14 years because of being sick"? If she was trying to play herself up as some kind of proof of Malachi 3, it does not work to a thinking person, as she had nothing like 'storehouses that could not contain' all that wealth. And also, why would God work so incompletely as to still allow her to be sick enough to miss work those 6 days? The lengths people may go to boast about how faithful they are and what proof of supernatural power they espouse can be comical.

Alcott are you saved or not. If you claim to be saved then why don't you believe what God said he would do for those who are faithful. You ridiculing Laura and the way you have done it sures places question marks on your beliefs.

 

[TWade]

Jailminister posted:
Economic Law
Things like if you don't work you don't eat, you work you earn, etc. These are still in effect and are for everyone.

TWade posted:
Where are you living?

Jailminister posted:
In Texas. Do you not agree that that is a law that God placed us all under. I know man can violates any of the laws but they are still His.

You missed my sarcasm.

 

[Jailminister]

Sorry about that, I understand your point.

 

[TWade]

Nah, it's my fault. Shouldn't be sarcastic.

 

[Alcott]

Originally posted by LauraB:
Alcott,
You need to get a life.

And you need to get a brain.

 

[Alcott]

Originally posted by Jailminister:
why don't you believe what God said he would do for those who are faithful.

And what's that, Benny? Make us all millionaires?

This silly boasting about how "faithful" does not set well with me.

 

[Jailminister]

Alcott, Not one person here has proclaim the teachings of Benny Hinn. Don't assume something that is not true.
I also am sorry that you don't care much about being faithful.

 

[rlvaughn]

Originally posted by LauraB:
...God owns 10% of what we make...

God owns 100% of what we make!

 

[Jailminister]

Actually God owns 100& of everything.

 

[Johnv]

Jailminister & rlvaughn:

You guys are right on the money (no pun intended). When I get my paycheck, it's not my money. It's God's. I'm supposed to be a good steward of it. Now, does that mean I can't go on vacation and blow it on souveniers? Sure I can, so long as I've budgeted for that purpose, and I haven't neglected my financial obligations. I shouldn't go on vacation if I owe back rent, for example. Now, as far as money and the church, I've said it earlier, if we're rightly taking advantage of a church's resources via worship, fellowship, study groups, differeng ministries, etc, then should we not also be financially supporting the church? I think so. A tithe (10%) is reasonable, methinks. If I can't afford 10%, is it because I've overextended myself elsewhere? I unfortunately know too many people who can't afford to tithe, but can afford two car payments, cell phones, digital cable, dsl, and a sea doo! It ain't my place to judge them, but sometimes it's not difficult to question a person's priorities, ya know?

On that note, I'm going to go to my garage to see if I can fit a kayak in it