Tithing--to your Church, Or Pick and Choose?

Bro.Tom...sorry...didn't mean to go off topic...just wanted to weigh-in with my opinion since this is a topic that has been somewhat of a personal issue for me. I guess I'll just have to "weigh-OUT" of this topic since I can't "assume" tithing to be scriptural....because I don't believe it is.As to where our "GIVING" should go or how it is to be distributed,I do believe we should definitely support the local church we attend but it is perfectly alright for any believer to give money to other organizations or worthy,needy individuals as the Lord leads them to do so.In doing so we are doing the Lord's work and giving unto Him out of that which He provides for us.Giving is a blessing for which I am most thankful.

Greg Sr.

 

Can anyone use Scripture to support where the "tithe" should go, instead of just throwing ideas around? I know that most would say (1) "tithe" goes to the local church, then (2) anything else goes to local church and/or other ministries. Ok. That seems like something many would agree on by tradition and intuition. Can anyone give their support with Scripture?

Of course, I can give plenty of plain and clear verses in the Bible showing where tithes actually went and were commanded to go, but I'm sure no one would want to hear (read) about it because it would be "off topic".

 

Ok. Here is the issue for me...

THE NT NEITHER COMMANDS OR PROVIDES A PATTERN FOR TITHING TO A LOCAL CHURCH.

Yes, we all (at least those of us who depend on the giving of our members for our paycheck) want our members to give first to the local church and then to other parachurch ministries...

I know that....

I repeat my earlier challenge. ANYONE got a NT passage that supports tithing (assumed for the sake of this thread) ONLY or even PRIMARILY to your local church? IFB church, for Shiloh. Any passages from the Word?

So far, I have seen nary a one...

 

I am trying to stick to the OP, and I assume the question, like any other question on the BB, expects an answer from Scripture. The problem is that I cannot find anything in Scripture that can adequately address the OP because the Scriptures that actually do clearly spell out what the OP is supposed to represent require massive subjectivity and abstraction. In accordance with the OP, I asked earlier not with any spite for Scripture references to support the arguments about where the "tithe" should go (local church, other ministries) because all I have seen so far were unsupported statements. The best answer for any question that deals with a Biblical matter is Biblical content; therefore, that is why I was wondering why I haven't seen any good Scripture referenced in conversation thus far.

I did reference these aforementioned Scriptures in an earlier post and tried my best to apply it to the church. I mentioned the annual tithe celebration among the church, the tri-annual tithe for the community, the tithe for the ministers and their tithe on tithes, and so on as I attempted to determine where tithes could go based on actual tithe passages from actual tithe laws. I guess that doesn't count?

 

Perhaps a question stemming from the OP could be: Does all the tithe(s) have to go to one place?

From the actual tithe passages, if they were all referring to the same tithe, the answer would be "no".

 

The New Testament plan of giving is 1 Cor 16:2, and 2 Cor 9:7-9. In the first instance it appears to be the case that an evangelist, Paul, received financial support. In the second, the poor.

Obviously, any Christian church today, beyond one with only 20-25 members, cannot function without a paid pastor and staff, including a janitor. We certainly are not tied to the Old Testament Jewish pattern (which, by the way, was often more than 10%, and was mandatory.)

 

Tom,

My wife and I give 10-12% of our income to the Lord's work. Some could call it tithing, but I just see that as a starting point.

In the past I have given 10% to the church and the additional was to ministries and missionaries.

Recently, I have re-thought this practice and have decided to exercise a little more control over where the money goes. Largely this is because my church grossly undercontributes to missions, a particular passion of mine since I have close friends and relatives on the mission field.

So, I give 10% of our end of month income (which is around 75% of our income) to the church budget.

I give 10% of my mid-month check to ministries (radio primarily) and missions.

So, in all, we give 7.5% to the church and 5% to other ministries. All of it is dedicated to the Lord.

If someone could show me a New Testament mandate that this is wrong, let me know.

 

No! We are debating where it should go.

 

There is certainly nothing wrong with giving. One will not be able to find anything in the Old or the New Testaments that will dictate how much and exactly where a New Testament believer should give to the work of God. I do think many churches do not give enough to missions, and I would feel much better if I knew that most of my money were going to missionaries to spread the gospel and not mainly to purchase pretty glass chandaliers, to build an addition to a social lobby/gym, or to purchase someone's cadillac.

 

Preachers can't have a Cadillac? Is that what this is about?

The Bible says that preachers who labor in the Word and doctrine are worthy of DOUBLE HONOR! The word honor is tima and encompasses compensation for his life work of shepherding the flock...

I don't have a Cadillac anyway. I have an F-150 and my wife has a '99 Town Car. Is that wrong? Should I sell it and get one that I have to stop and fill up the oil and check the gas?

Besides, we haint got no chandaliers neither. No one in our church what that knows how to play them thangs no ways...

 

lol, I have a Cadillac and plan on buying a new one soon.

 

Tom,
If I understand you correctly, you believe that Luke 11:42 teaches that:

1. As Christians we are obligated to tithe.

2. Our tithe must go completely to our local church.

I certainly don't see that, but if you do, then follow your conscience.

 

No. All I said was that I (personally) would feel better if I knew that most of the money I give were going to actual gospel work. I know that there must be a balance in all this, and if I say one thing it will always be taken to an extreme. There is nothing wrong with a preacher having a cadillac. I just picked some examples that don't necessarily reflect what I actually observe in my own life. I was mainly following up on this comment:

Good for you.

Ok. I know this topic is not supposed to debate "tithing", but these comments from Tom Butler cannot be remain without an explanation.

Let's look at the two passages in question and make some observations.

Jesus was talking to the scribes and Pharisees. Who were they? They were (supposedly) Jewish professional Mosaic Law-abiders.
Notice it said they tithed "mint, anise, cummin, rue, and all manner of herbs." These were nitty grittly little things that weren't actually required to be tithed under the Levitical law. However, just like with many other facets of the Law, the Pharisees went over and above anything that had to do with outward actions while their hearts were not right, and they did not execute proper discernment, love, and mercy toward others. The point was not that they tithed, but that they tithed "even" of the little herbs and spices, while rejecting the actual spirit of the law. Notice also that no money is mentioned in either of these passages because no one ever tithed money in the Bible--ever!--no matter what the economy was (unless they were redeeming their tithes of the ground for 20% interest).
The fact that these were scribes and Pharisees, Jesus was accusing them of their own example of living under the Levitical Law. These tithes mentioned were the same tithes of herds and crops mentioned throughout the Law: the annual celebration tithe on harvest increase, the heap tithe every three years, the tithe to the Levites and their tithe to the priests, which could be from one tithe to three different tithes (10% - 23.3% of annual increase, not income).

Were the Pharisees part of the church? As mentioned earlier, this reference is to the Levitical tithe laws given to the Pharisees who were supposed to be the ideal representatives of obeying the Mosaic Law. Jesus was holding them to their own standards. These passages have nothing to do with the church.
Just as a thought, Jesus started the church with His disciples, but it didn't seem to organize and manifest itself much until Pentecost.

You are free to have your opinion, but any suggestion or requirement of a "tithe" to the church would have to be proved from Scripture.

Our modern day definition of the terms tithe and offering seem to differ much from how they were used in Scripture.
A tithe was one tenth of the annual increase of one's harvest (crops and livestock). During an agricultural year there could have been plenty of "income" and "expenditures", but only the increase of the harvest was tithed. If there must be a modern day equivalent, the closest thing of which I can compare would be "revenue" or "profit", because that would be the "increase" after the income and expenditures are factored in and the remainder is what has been added to the estate.
An offering in Scripture almost always refers to something burned on an altar. Some of the tithe constituted offerings sacrificed by the priests. There were several different types of offerings in the Law; to which ones are you referring?
You are free to have your opinion, but your defintion of these terms and their alleged recipients would have to be proved from Scripture.

 

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quote:
The Bible says that preachers who labor in the Word and doctrine are worthy of DOUBLE HNOR! The word honor is tima and encompasses compensation for his life work of shepherding the flock.
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I have no problems with a preacher being blessed of God with material blessings. It does turm my stomach to see preachers plan out their retirement packages, wear expensive jewlery and live high off the hog on the offerings provided to the church.

When a paster preaches tithing they tell the poorest members of the church that they are robbing God if they don't tithe. At the same time you are gonna tell me that a $500 - $600 car payment and expensive dinners are ok on the back of a man barely able to feed his family? He is giving in an attempt to serve God, not man!

We are supposed to be Christ like! Read your bible. Christ was homeless!!

A pastor needs some compensation for feeding the flock. But the real profit is in the souls of men.

Apparently this thread is not to debate the lie of N.T. tithing. But make no mistake. N.T. tithing is a lie and has never been biblically practised in the N.T. Trust God for offerings as you tell your congregations to.

 

Luke 11:42: But woe to you Pharisees! For you pay tithe of mint and rue and every kind of garden herb, and yet disregard justice and the love of God; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others.

Jesus "endorsed tithing" by saying "these things [pay tithe of mint and rue and every kind of garden herb] you should have done without neglecting the others"? Okay. That actually is in favor of the "things" theretofore referred which the Pharisees were doing.

Okay. He told the Pharisees they "should have done" these things... which were tithing mint and dill and garden herbs... and the church had 'already' been established. Whether this verse endorses tithing to "his church" depends on whether it was "his church" which was receving what it was that the Pharisees tithed. Was it? {Yes or No}

 

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Quote:
Jesus "endorsed tithing" by saying "these things [pay tithe of mint and rue and every kind of garden herb] you should have done without neglecting the others"? Okay. That actually is in favor of the "things" theretofore referred which the Pharisees were doing.
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Jesus endorsed it because at the time the law was still in force. There is NO example of tithing in the N.T. that we are expected to follow. We are to give only.