Tithing?????

I was not amazed because He did not do that. My objective statistical test showed the Malachi 3 test to have failed. So either it is false or it is not applicable.

 

where does it say this in the new testament ?

I have always tithed....but I also know that there have been Christians in history that still starve to death.

Tithe with the right heart attitude not because you " Expect " God to bless...if he blesses great...but if he doesn't that doesn't mean he still isn't God. He wants a cheerful giver...not one who does it grudingly.

Again check out this article on Malachi and tithing

http://www.letusreason.org/Wf34.htm

Sharon

 

Here is a portion from that article...just in case people do NOT click on the link.

"No other Scripture has had greater mileage than Malachi 3:10 “Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this,” says the Lord of hosts, “if I will not open for you the windows of heaven, and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows.” Malachi 3 has been greatly misused for God's blessing to come to his people. A closer look of this verse in the context shows that it has nothing to do with wealth or material blessings. We first find this same term used by God back in Genesis 7:11 the windows of heaven were open and rain contributed to the flood, as the fountains of the deep were broken open. In Genesis 8:2 it says the windows of heaven were stopped and the rain from heaven was restrained. Isaiah 24:18 it also mentions the windows from on high; this phrase is consistently used for water. In Genesis it was a judgment. In Malachi 3 it was to be a blessing on their crops. The nation lived by their agriculture (Husbandry) and depended upon the rain. God's blessing had to do with his provision of water; no rain and they would starve. If they did not give God their tithes which was part of the blessing in the Mosaic covenant God would bring a curse on them, the ground would not yield food because he would not allow it to rain.

By the nation Israel tithing under the Law of Moses, they were to trust God acknowledging that everything belongs to Him. It is impossible to tithe as given to Moses, for it was mostly agricultural. Today we hear that we are to obey the tithe law. The tithes were not gifts, they were taxes, tithes were given in addition to other numerous offerings which ended up to be over 22% (not just 10%). Under the law if you were only giving 10 percent on your tithes you would still be robbing God. One tithe was used to support the Levites (Numbers 18:21-32), who were not allowed to own property like the other tribes of Israel. However, this tithe from the people brought to the Levitical priests was not just money. The goods the Levites received would provide their living for their work in the tabernacle. They also were to tithe on part of the goods that they received, and were to dedicate to the Lord a tenth to the office of the high priest (Numbers 18:21-28). It was the Levites who were to “bring up the tenth of the tithes to the house of our God, to the chambers of the storehouse” (Nehemiah 10:38). The Malachi passage that so many use to prove we are to tithe is not rebuking the people, he is rebuking the Levites for keeping the tithe that went to them. When modern day prosperity teachers use this verse on the people to be faithful, but they are really pointing at themselves-except they are biblically ignorant to recognize what it's actually saying. 1 Timothy 1:5-7 “Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.” The New Testament teaches grace giving, tithing was not a freewill cheerful giving, it was a commandment in Moses' law to a nation under God, Israel. Nowhere in the New Testament does it require any obligation or a legal portion of ones income.

Prosperity teachers who promote tithing like to point out that Jesus commanded tithing. In the New Testament tithe and tithing are found eight times (Matthew 23:23; Luke 11:42; 18:12; Hebrews 7:5-6,8-9). All of these passages refer to the Old Testament usage under the law. Tithing was still practiced under the law when Jesus was on earth, however, the only time Jesus mentioned the tithe was a rebuke to the religious leaders “But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass by justice and the love of God. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. In Matthew 23:23 he explains they “have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith.” These you ought to have done” Here Jesus makes it clear that living the life of faith toward God included love toward man and was more necessary than what you give to God; and this was under the law, not grace. Think about what is Jesus addressing? Justice, the Pharisees were unfair in the in dealings with the people, they ripped them off in their sacrifices brought to the temple. Mercy, they had none, everyone had to be as religious (spiritual) as they were. They constantly looked down upon people, remember the story Jesus told of “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.” The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank You that I am not like other men-- extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 'I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess. “And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!' “I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted” (Luke 18:10-14).
So we see giving is not enough to make one justified before God, yet many have been convinced to rely on their obedience in this area to have God's blessings."

 

SAMPLEWOW this quote from the article above is for you....

"If you run into financial difficulties and are unable to feed your family or pay the mortgage, you are not obligated to continue giving 10% to the church. The Apostle Paul said in 1 Tim 5:8, “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.” This is ones first ministry; rest assured the church will get along without your money.

If you have set aside money for your family needs, but do not use it for them and instead pay it to a church or a ministry as tithes, or as an offering of seed to get out of debt your are not being a good steward. If you owe money on your house don't fall for the scammers that say the $1,000 you have saved for the mortgage will not pay for the house so send it in as a seed to get more money. They are feeding on your carnal nature and making you covet--be responsible to God. Scripture does not teach to give more than you can afford, nor give so God can give you more. There was no mention of the poor becoming rich in the gospel, Jesus did not promise a hundred-fold blessing. “For there are many unruly, vain talkers and deceivers, especially they of the circumcision: whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucere's sake” (Titus 1:10-11). Their motivation is money, what is your motivation? It has been said “He that serves God for money will serve the Devil for better wages”(Roger L'eStrange). What did Jesus tell us, you can't serve God and Mammon at the same time.

If your family is hungry and you need help to pay the rent you shouldn't be obligated to tithe the church should instead be helping you-willingly. That is what they are there for. We have this example in the early church (Acts 4:37). It is to be the “love of Christ that constrains us” (2 Corinthians 5:14). For it is the heart of God to help those in need, in money if necessary. We as the church should be looking for opportunities to give to those less fortunate around us not to those who already have it all. I hear of too many stories of rich ministries being supported for years and then someone who is hurting asks for some help and they get none. Where is your motivation? Is it of legalism, by law, or from the heart. It is to be the Lord Jesus reaching out and meeting the needs of others through us -- love is the principle that governs the Christians life, it is active not passive. “Though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not (His) love, it profits me nothing (1 Corinthians 13:3). Yes you can actually give it all away as required and still not do it as a response from your heart."

 

Glory-to-God I agree.

 

Uh... Glory-to-God i agree with what you said before you coppied whatever was on the link.

 

One thing everyone is missing is that tithing predated the Law by about 400 years. Genesis 14 records the account of Abram and Melchizedek.

I agree that the tithe was typically given of the flock or the heard or the grain. Today we don't generally deal in those commodities so we tithe the commodity we do have...money. I know in Romania, some still bring a tithe of the field. I have a friend that pastored in a small town in Louisiana where the people brouyght food they had grown as their tithe.

We should tithe. The reason most people don't tithe is because they waste their money on other things and they convince themselves they cannot afford to tithe. There are, of course, exceptions, but in my financial dealings with people (I teach a class on finances at my church), they don't tithe because they don't want to.

Statistics of professing Christians that do not tithe are staggering. Another thing is that people believe they are tithing if they give regularly. This is not true. The very nature of the tithe is 10%. As was mentioned above, under the Law, Jews were required to give up to about 23% of their income.

Tithing is not a financial matter, but a spiritual matter.

 

Matthew 6:25,"Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26: Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27: Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
28: And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
29: And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
30: Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
31: Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
32: (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
33: But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
34: Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof."
If you do your part God will do his. If you trust God and pay back the money that was his in the first place then he will take care of you. God allows you to breathe every day so why should you worry?

 

Tithing was a principle God introduced before the law.

Jesus, when he was rebuking the Pharisees, told them tithing was something there were supposed to do.

The Corinthians passage teaches we have a greater responsibility under grace concerning finances.

Why do people oppose the idea of tithing so vehemently?

 

For someone like samplewow....I agreed with the part of the article about a Christian who is in need ( hopefully not for making foolish choices with his finances ) should be able to go to the church for financial help...that is what the church is there for. It wouldn't make sense if he gave lets say $200 a month only to have the church give it back to him to help him out.

God rewards your heart attitude not if you are going through the motions just to earn Gods favor.

I do not see any verses in the new testament that COMMAND tithing-giving. I see if our faith is strong we will give abundantly even more than the tithe....but not because we have to.

Sharon

 

Thankyou MikeinGhana!

 

We just watched a great movie at church last night for harvest day.....that I think would help you a lot in trusting God in this area.

It's a Christian movie called FLY WHEEL well done too....really enjoyed it. Check it out ! you need lots of prayer and " Faith " right now.

Sharon

 

Samplewow,

I would recommend calling the people you owe and let them know your situation. Tell them you're in seminary and you're really trying to pay your bills. Offer them a smaller amount than is billed. Oftentimes, they will be agreeable to a smaller amount than none at all.

Give it a try.

 

If you really expect God to do something great for you then you must trust Him. God does not need your money. He has plenty. We need to give to God to prove we trust Him in all situations.

 

As a tax attorney of 30 years, I see the evidence of tithing in my clients both for and against. I then heard Dr. Bill Purvis defend New Testament tithing in a debate and I was totally blown away at the evidence for New Testament tithing. I needed logic, evidence and reason, he gave that. I needed faith and God gave me that. I think his church Cascadehills.com provides a booklet of his on New Testament tithing.

 

That would be New Testament GIVING.
Tithing wasn't commanded in the new testament....but giving is a principle that was given. You will give according to your faith and love for God. not because you " have " to.

 

Glory,

I'm pretty sure that's what Taxman was saying, probably an issue of semantics.


Taxman makes a great point, he has experience in the field and his input was beneficial. (not implying you didn't feel the same way Glory)

 

your right it would be interesting to see the booklet he is talking about

 

no need to get the booklet: dr. bill's opinion on tithing is online at http://www.cascadehills.com/pastors_corner/default.asp . there is even a button on the bottom of the page for you to 'tithe on line'. glory is correct...tithing is ot. why do people always use mal. 3 to justify tithing? why don't they use deut. 14?