Reference please
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Titles
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
Reference please
...particularly since the Bible tells us that God gave us pastors, teachers, etc.
You can call me Ray. Or, you can call me Jay...
(Sadly, 90% of the people here have no idea what I'm talking about.)
North Carolina Tentmaker
New Member
I believe the passage referred to here is Matthew 23:1-12. I used to volunteer at a hospital with a 7th Day Adventist Pastor and he used this passage to explain why his church did not allow titles including Reverend or Deacon.
I always wondered how Catholic Priests justify the use of the title Father when they read this.
I always wondered how Catholic Priests justify the use of the title Father when they read this.
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Yep, you're a Baptist.:smilewinkgrin:
saturneptune
New Member
I would think the titles used in the Bible. Paul points out qualifications for deacon, elder, pastor and bishop.
I always wonder how Paul justified claiming to be the father of the Christians at Corinth.
1 Corinthians 4:15-16 NAS77
15 For if you were to have countless tutors in Christ, yet you would not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.
16 I exhort you therefore, be imitators of me.
Jesus was using hyperbole when he said to call no man father. He of course meant not to give any man the honor that is due only to God. Here are other examples of hyperbole that we can't (and don't) take literally:
[W]hen you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, Matthew 6:3.
If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell. Matthew 5:29-30.
But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you. Matthew 6:6.
It is a challenging argument to make in light of Scripture.
Though our titles have changed, indeed, evolved, since the first century. However, in that context titles were used.
Jesus is called "Rabbi" or "Rabbioni" numerous times in the first four books. The Apostles clearly were given a title, and elders or pastors were also, as well one can see the emerging title of "Deacon" "Prophet" and "Presbyter" emerge as legitimate titles by the end of the first century.
Maybe sometimes we baptists just try to be too baptist.
Though our titles have changed, indeed, evolved, since the first century. However, in that context titles were used.
Jesus is called "Rabbi" or "Rabbioni" numerous times in the first four books. The Apostles clearly were given a title, and elders or pastors were also, as well one can see the emerging title of "Deacon" "Prophet" and "Presbyter" emerge as legitimate titles by the end of the first century.
Maybe sometimes we baptists just try to be too baptist.
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Perhaps the key word in the Drfuss quote is "elevated."
Pastor, deacon, bishop were all titles of office indicating service with special responsibility. However, such titles were not "elevating" a person over another as more special in access to the Father.
Such came later along with confessionals, praying to saints, and relics.
I do think (if in fact I am right in my discernment of what was stated) that Drfuss has a good point to make.
Pastor, deacon, bishop were all titles of office indicating service with special responsibility. However, such titles were not "elevating" a person over another as more special in access to the Father.
Such came later along with confessionals, praying to saints, and relics.
I do think (if in fact I am right in my discernment of what was stated) that Drfuss has a good point to make.
Gregory Perry Sr.
Active Member
What I think....
I will call my pastor Pastor, preacher, brother, my friend, and at times when in private I may even call him by his first name....but I will NOT call him or any other preacher "Reverend" or even "Rev." The only place that word appears in scripture is in Psalm 111:9 and it is a term used to describe how holy, special and worthy of reverence, fear and respect God's name is. No mere mortal man is deserving of this term and it was never intended to be used as a "title" anyway. I also have the same objection to the use of the term "Father" as applied to the so-called "priests" of the RCC in complete disregard of what the Word of God teaches in Matt. 23.
Bro.Greg:saint:
I will call my pastor Pastor, preacher, brother, my friend, and at times when in private I may even call him by his first name....but I will NOT call him or any other preacher "Reverend" or even "Rev." The only place that word appears in scripture is in Psalm 111:9 and it is a term used to describe how holy, special and worthy of reverence, fear and respect God's name is. No mere mortal man is deserving of this term and it was never intended to be used as a "title" anyway. I also have the same objection to the use of the term "Father" as applied to the so-called "priests" of the RCC in complete disregard of what the Word of God teaches in Matt. 23.
Bro.Greg:saint:
saturneptune
New Member
Bro. Greg,
This is just purely my opinion. No I would not use the terms you mentioned if I was a pastor. I think more important is the mindset of the person carrying a title. If the title gives a sense in the person of pride, arrogance, or above the average church member, then it is not the title that is evil, it is the person wearing it.
Sincerely,
His Royal Highness,
Michael
I know of some pastors who bristle when you simply address them as Brother, or by their first name.
Thomas Helwys
New Member
Thomas Helwys
New Member
Right! There is a difference in a title as an office and an artificial title such as Reverend which ascribes to man that which rightly belongs only to God.
Thomas Helwys
New Member
Totally agree!
Thomas Helwys
New Member
saturneptune
New Member
Thomas Helwys
New Member
Hyperbole? Incorrect.