TNIV/KJV In Psalms

[Rippon]

More contrasts with the KJV. This time the TNIV will be paired up with/against it. I'm just giving added weight to the fact that the Anglican Version is woefully out-of-date. A contemporary English reader of Scripture needs to study a more modern version so that understanding will result.The KJV family has had its day.But for nearly 200 years the English speaking world has needed something in the common vernacular.Today we have been blessed with many fine modern versions.

KJV above --TNIV wording below.

7:16
down on his own pate
down on their own heads

17:10
They are enclosed in their own fat
They close up their callous hearts

22:29
All they that be fat
All the rich

26:4
neither will I go in with dissemblers
nor do I associate with hypocrites

26:9
Gather not my soul with sinners
Do not take away my soul along with sinners

31:8
set my feet in a large room
set my feet in a spacious place

31:11
they that did see me without fled from me
those who see me on the street flee from me

32:3
my roaring
my groaning

35:17
my darling
my precious life

37:28
For the Lord loveth judgment
For the Lord loves the just

38:11
My lovers
My friends

38:17
For I am ready to halt
For I am about to fall

39:6
every man walketh in a vain shew
everyone goes around like a mere phantom

 

[Rippon]

Continuing in Psalms

41:3
make all his bed in sickness
restores them from their bed of illness

44:15
My confusion is continually before me
I live in disgrace all day long

49:4
I will open my dark saying
I will expound my riddle

49:8
it ceaseth for ever
no payment is ever enough

49:10
the brutish person
the senseless

50:23
him that ordeth his conversation aright
to the blameless

 

[Baptist4life]

I found none of those verses in the KJV hard to comprehend. Again, your obsession against the KJV is obvious. Is your life that boring that this is all you think about? How and when did you become the "expert" on Bible translations, if I may ask? You are simply stating YOUR preference. Nothing more. And frankly, you're getting boring with it all.

 

[robycop3]

Actually, I prefer reading the Psalms from the KJV or other older BV such as the Geneva Bible. The archaic English seems more poetic & song-like to me. Not wanting to sound like a braggart, but the archaic terminology poses no prob for me.

And I don't think anyone who's been reading this forum for the last several years is gonna truthfully accuse ME of being KJVO!

 

[preachinjesus]

The Psalms are woefully hard to translate from originals to modern English...so much is lost in the translation.

I do like the KJV's rendering in some places over other translations if for no other reason that it is truly more "poetic" even though it might take some liberties with the translation.

It's just hard to translate that consonant laden Hebriac poetry and all of its idiosyncracies.

 

[Rippon]

51:12
uphold me with thy free spirit
grant me a willing spirit,to sustain me

58:8
the untimely birth of a woman
like a stillborn child

59:10
The God of my mercy shall prevent me
my God on whom I can rely.God will go before me

62:3
How long will ye imagine mischief against a man?ye shall be slain all of you
How long will you assault me?Would all of you throw me down

62:4
from his excellency
from my lofty place

62:9
they are altogether lighter than vanity
together they are only a breath

64:4
That they may shoot in secret the perfect
They shoot from ambush at the innocent

65:5
By terrible things in righteousness
with awesome and righteous deeds

65:8
thy tokens
your wonders

 

[TrustingInHim]

I've been exploring the NIV a bit this year. Some things I like about it - the simple terms can be eye opening, but over all I don't like the sentence structuring. I think that there can be quite a bit of meaning lost in the simplicity of the NIV. I prefer the NKJV as it uses modern English terms but seems to preserve the thought structure I see in the KJV. What I like best when studying is to compare the 5 to 10 well known translations together which most online Bible sites now offer.

My pastor spends a bit of time explaining the old English terms of the KJV in his preaching. But we all usually get a Greek/Hebrew lesson out of it too!

 

[Rippon]

I've been exploring the NIV a bit this year. Some things I like about it - the simple terms can be eye opening, but over all I don't like the sentence structuring. I think that there can be quite a bit of meaning lost in the simplicity of the NIV. I prefer the NKJV as it uses modern English terms but seems to preserve the thought structure I see in the KJV. What I like best when studying is to compare the 5 to 10 well known translations together which most online Bible sites now offer.

You think the NIV is simplistic?!What's your opinion of the NLTse then?That's more dynamic,but I wouldn't even call that version simplistic.

The NKJ uses "modern English terms"?Have you really taken the time to go through the NKJ?Its language isn't as ancient as the KJV,but it certainly doesn't use currently spoken or written English in the text.

I do agree with you about using several translations and comparing.I kike to compare the NRSV,TNIV,HCSB,NET Bible,NLTse and ISV.

Nice to meet you TIH.

 

[TrustingInHim]

You think the NIV is simplistic?!What's your opinion of the NLTse then?That's more dynamic,but I wouldn't even call that version simplistic.

The NKJ uses "modern English terms"?Have you really taken the time to go through the NKJ?Its language isn't as ancient as the KJV,but it certainly doesn't use currently spoken or written English in the text.

I do agree with you about using several translations and comparing.I kike to compare the NRSV,TNIV,HCSB,NET Bible,NLTse and ISV.

Nice to meet you TIH.

Hi,

Nice to meet you too!
Well, I don't find the NIV as detailed as say the NJK or even the NLT. It is more concise; perhaps 'simple' is the wrong word for that. I find the NRSV helpful also. I think it is good to review more than one translation when studying because the translations are based on variously aged Greek manuscripts (NT) and seem to result in slightly different English conversions. I am not able to do anything with Greek or Hebrew myself and rely on concordances, and commentaries from those who do understand it.

 

[Rippon]

Here are some more examples where I maintain that even diehard KJV fans wouldn't have an inkling as to the actual meaning of a number of passages.They may know the meaning of many ancient wordings -- but certainly a great number of other verses would leave them perplexed.

68:13
ye have lien among the pots
you sleep among the sheep pens

There is absolutely no comparison.Without consulting MV's or Bible study helps there would be no way a modern KJV person could decode this.

73:4
For there are no bands in their death
They have no struggles

The same applies to the above.

78:66
And he smote his enemies in the hinder parts
He beat back his enemies

This is the kind of case where advocates claiming complete mastery of the KJV would come up empty.

 

[Rippon]

I must say that some of these verses in the KJV would be difficult to decipher if no one had recorse to an MV.For a number of the passages it's not just a matter of updating the language -- the whole meaning is different.

62:3
How long will ye imagine mischief against a man?ye shall be slain all of you
How long will you assault me?Would all of you throw me down

The KJV wording (and hence the meaning) is completely different.

65:8
thy tokens
your wonders

I'm afraid that those here who claim that they understand the meaning of the KJV renderings so well are only fooling themselves.

wonders --NLTse
signs --NRSV,HCSB,REB

 

[Rippon]

I had inadvertently deleted the following examples -- so I'm doing them once more.

66:11
laidest affliction upon out loins
laid burdens on our backs

67:2
saving health
salvation

71:7
I am as a wonder unto many
I have become as a portent to many

76:5
none of the men of might have found their hands
not one of the warriors can lift his hands

78:33
Therefore their days did he consume in vanity
So he ended their days in futility

78:57
like a deceitful bow
as an unreliable bow

79:8
let thy tender mercies speedily prevent us
may your mercy come quickly to meet us

 

[Baptist4life]

Here are some more examples where I maintain that even diehard KJV fans wouldn't have an inkling as to the actual meaning of a number of passages.They may know the meaning of many ancient wordings -- but certainly a great number of other verses would leave them perplexed.



There is absolutely no comparison.Without consulting MV's or Bible study helps there would be no way a modern KJV person could decode this.



The same applies to the above.



This is the kind of case where advocates claiming complete mastery of the KJV would come up empty.

Those are absolute lies, Rippon! I KNEW EXACTLY what EVERYONE of those phrases meant! When you've used the KJV for a long time, those phrases have LONG AGO been figured out! Oh my, but you're so wrong. :tonofbricks: Perhaps YOU should apologize for your FALSE statements and you assuming that KJV readers are ignorant illiterates!

 

[Rippon]

Those are absolute lies, Rippon! I KNEW EXACTLY what EVERYONE of those phrases meant! When you've used the KJV for a long time, those phrases have LONG AGO been figured out! Oh my, but you're so wrong. :tonofbricks: Perhaps YOU should apologize for your FALSE statements and you assuming that KJV readers are ignorant illiterates!

WOW! And you retained all of the above even with a self-edit.

In post #3 of yours you indicated that you were bored with this thread.I guess you're getting excited now.

Really BFL,becalm thyself.You are getting too hot under your collar.Why say things so extreme? I have never so much as hinted that KJV readers are "ignorant illiterates".You misunderstand plain contemporary English.So I doubt that you can comprehend English several centuries of age.

My suggestion is for you to participate in threads where your evident anger isn't going to blow out of control.

 

[Jim1999]

I grew up in Anglican Boy's school (which is a private boy's boarding school) where the King James Version was the bible of choice. One of my masters insisted that we read a lot of shakespeare, Milton and such English writers and we would gain a great understanding of the KJV. We also studied the difference in the English tongue between 1769 and the 1930's when I was in school.

I am English by birth and schooling and I have some difficulties with King James English. I can only imagine how much more difficult it may be for an American reader. We even have trouble between modern English and American English.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Rippon]

I grew up in Anglican Boy's school (which is a private boy's boarding school) where the King James Version was the bible of choice. One of my masters insisted that we read a lot of shakespeare, Milton and such English writers and we would gain a great understanding of the KJV. We also studied the difference in the English tongue between 1769 and the 1930's when I was in school.

Ah,Shakespeare and Milton --readers of the Geneva Bible.

I am English by birth and schooling and I have some difficulties with King James English. I can only imagine how much more difficult it may be for an American reader. We even have trouble between modern English and American English.

"We even have trouble between modern English and American English."

By "modern English" do you mean British English?

 

[Jim1999]

Yes,,then what can be more English than English......lol

I had great difficulty when I first came to America. Our language was so different. We used he same words (not spelling) but had different meanings.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Rippon]

83:13
make them like a wheel
[Say what?]


Make them like tumbleweed

Ah ha! Now I know what's being discussed.]

84:10
For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand
[KJV is incomplete here.]

Better is one day in your courts than a thousand elsewhere

88:15
I am distracted
[Really? no big deal than.]

am in despair

[Oh,that's pretty severe.(and different than even the older meaning of distraction).

89:28
My mercy will I keep for him forevermore

["Mercy"?]

I will maintain my love to him forever

["Love" is more like it.]

90:9
as a tale that is told

[A story?!]

with a moan

[Hmm,something radically different.Even a modernization of the KJV words here would not have yielded this meaning.]

90:11
even according to thy fear,so is thy wrath

Your wrath is as great as the fear that is your due

[That's much more clear than the KJV wording.]

 

[Rippon]

118:7
therefore shall I see my desire upon them that hate me

[What in the world ...?]

I look in triumph on my enemies

[ Oh,that makes things clear.]

119:53
Horror hath taken hold upon me

[No,not horror at all.Horror means fear;while this verse speaks of anger.]

Indignation grips me because of the wicked

[ Yeah,that's the ticket! ---Indignation.]

119:109

My soul is continually in my hand

[ No.]

I constantly take my life in my hands

[ Yes,'life',not 'soul' which sends a wrong signal.]

144:11

deliver me from the hand of strange children

["Strange children"?!]

rescue me from the hands of foreigners

[ Now that's much better.MV's really unlock what ancient versions obscure.]

 

[Rippon]

Well,I just got through checking all those KJV lines and found that the MLB had just three in common.Those were : 17:10;26:9 and 67:2.

On a side-note,the KJV has "deliver me from the hand of strange children" (144:11).That's kind of puzzling to today's reader. However,the MLB has :"rescue me from the hand of aliens"!