To Clause or not to Clause: Santa and the Church

Half of the Jesus Christmas story is false too, and I don't see anyone screaming over it! Yet you'll attack a fun and fictional tradition. What's wrong with that picture?
1. Jesus was NOT a newborn baby when visited by the magi. And unless his parents moved into the stable after his birth his star was over his house, not the stable. The shepherds didn't see this star. The magi did. We don't know how many magi were present. Three gifts may have been given by more than 3. Or maybe two of them brought 3 gifts.
But wait, what stable? Where are we told they stayed in a stable?
We aren't. Jesus was laid in a manger. Look it up and you'll find that mangers were commonly inside of people's homes during that period of time.
The whole story has been lied and assumed for the most part, then marketed.
All this stuff is easy enough to find even online, but your best option is to just open your bible and read.
I'd rather let my kids have fun with something they know is fictional rather than have them told lies about the truth.
Gina

 

I agree with that GinaL. Our tradition has been to read the Bible to our kids and let them hear the truth from God's word. Those half truths are sometimes more harmfull that a whole lie.

 

I am astounded that this deabte has degenerated into a fight!

Every parent is accountable to God for how they handle the situation. It is TOTALLY up to you as the parent how to deal with it.

Ro 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

 

Whose fighting? I am trying to be a good boy so that Santa will come and visit me.

 

You obviously weren't here last year for the "Is Santa the anti-Christ" escapades. I've not been suprised at anything since!
Gina

 

Hmm,

Well what do you know, Santa and the Easter bunny are fiction! Glad some one told me.

Guess I better throw out all my other fiction books like Pilgrim's Progress, The Screwtape Letters, etc.

What about "fairy" tales? Ohoh.

HankD

 

1) If there is a Santa I have a feeling he is NOT KJVO
2) Don't know Paige Patterson

On handling it in church. I would avoid using him in church to avoid offense, then leave it up to each family to decide how they are "fully convinced"

Funny comment - at my ordiantion council in 1995 my pastor opened the questioning up to the floor. The first question from the floor was "How do you hande the Santa question?"

 

Guess who this is?

 

St. Nicholas?

 

And a couple of other pictures of saint Nicholas.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~hebeco/jeugdboeken/images/sintverhalen.jpg
http://kunstvormen.nl/nicolaasstad/card/card.html
http://legendesensagen.homestead.com/Sintlegendeton.html
http://kids.flevoland.to/verhalen/images/sinterklaas-kl.gif
http://www.pinetreeweb.com/icon-saint-nicholas.gif

And a mini biography of the fellow.
http://www.byzantines.net/epiphany/nicholas.htm

 

Looks like a pope in his garb. But it is a drawing of st Nicholas. Does this mean that he is still alive today and brings kids toys at christmas?

 

Hmmm, that wold be via the spiritual gift of discernment.

It's too bad the Bible doesn't ban vain attempts to change the subject.

If I posted information to indicate that you took the verses out of context, would you be open to discussing the context of the verses you mentioned? I think I already "no" the answer.

Translation: Rather than discuss the issue, I'll dodge the bullet and attack your salvational state.

 

These are false analogies John.

I can tell my children that they are not old enough to know about all of the things you mention above without lying to them. If they do not ask, it is not lying to withhold information like this since they are not entitled to it.

I cannot tell them that the presents they get come from Santa Claus without lying to them. They are very much entitled to the secure knowledge that their parents will not persistently affirm things that are not true.

Daniel David's very concise statement describes my opinion as well. I will not tell my children that these fictional characters are real because to do so would be a lie.

My kid's enjoy Santa Claus books and movies. We don't oppose Santa Claus images or their contribution to the fun of Christmas. We have an artificial "Baal" tree that carries no pagan significance in our home whatsoever. But we don't lie to our children about someone they can't see when we expect them to believe us about someone else they can't see.

 

jailminister
"Looks like a pope in his garb."
Actually he looks like a bishop (and indeed he was one) and not like a pope.

 

Why not? When my daughter asked me if the package under the tree was a jacket, I told her "no" (when it was). When she opened it, and found it to be not just a jacket, but the very jacket she'd been eyeing for 6 months, she didn't have a problem with the fact that I purposefully misled her

Many of you know I recently surprised my mom by flying my brothers down here, at great effort and expense, to surprise her for her 70th birthday. It took months of lying to her and being dishonest about her birthday plans. But the ends, at least in this case, justified the means.

If that ain't enough, here's a good example that most men can relate to. When I was married, I knew that the only correct answer to "honey, does this dress make me look fat" was "nooooo!!!".

 

Well there is always a an excuse for lying. The question is lying a sin? If so, then I hope everyone that lies no matter what the reason is, repents.
As for fiction making it okay that is plain silly. You are REAL and regardless if it's fiction, you playing the role makes it real.
My problem is the lying part, the deceitfulness not the stroy of Santa.
If some lying is okay, where do you draw the line? by the means?

 

Alice in Wonderland and Cinderella are fiction.
Are they lies or the truth?

How about Pilgrim's Progress? It's fiction.
Is it a lie or truth?

HankD

 

Johnv said

This is really a problem here for you. If you really had discernment then you would know that I am saved and following the Holy Spirit. Also I was not questioning your salvation and I am sorry you took it that way, but following another Jesus doesn't necessarily mean you are not saved, but that you are being lead in a way that is contrary to the word of God. Some of your statements you have made over the last few months since I have been posting is so foreign from the word of God that I don't even know how to respond. I am will to debate the issues, but we must first agree that we recognize that we are brothers in Christ. I will try not to put you down in the future, even though I am unable to see it from your view point.

 

Jailminister
Your a guy who doesn't notice the difference in attire between a bishop and a pope, sorry but your powers of discernment seem somewhat debatable.