To drink...or not to drink...that is the question.

[HAMel]

Yet many can take that sip - or many sips over their lifetime - and never be controlled or intoxicated.

If one attends an AAA Meeting they might hear testimony of one who became hooked from using cough medicine as a child. Many such treatments do contain alcohol and one who is in recovery has to be very careful of over the counter items.

Contrary to many belief's, an addiction is serious business. Personally, I never had any problem with alcohol and hadn't touched the stuff for many years until recently trying to deal with a stomach problem..., which didn't work.

In recover from my operation last July the doctor prescribed a narcotic for pain management. First day was okay. The second day the room was spinning, people who were not in the room were shouting at me and finally, someone slammed down the hood of a John Deere riding mower on both of my hands.

That was it!!!! No more narcotics!!! Could I have become addicted? Could have. Oxycodone! I hear people kill for that mess and here the doctor had me taking it. Go away bud...! You might be a good surgeon but as a pill pusher..., no way.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I have a brother in Christ who has struggled with alcohol. He has been responsible enough to avoid drinking and driving, but he has had occasions where he has drunk too much. He is a Christian and feels a calling to evangelism. He asked God to remove the temptation of alcohol, and has stated that he abstains for personal reasons. His wife believes it is a sin to drink, as does his local church. He has provided a strong testimony of his life, including his struggle with alcohol. Now he has rationalized his drinking by determining that it is not a sin. I agree with him in principle…alcohol itself is not a sin. But he has already wrestled with this issue…I worry about his testimony and his future wellbeing. What advice would you give my brother?

He is resisting the very desire he claims to have to stop drinking, or God would have removed it, just as he asked. No, it is not a sin to drink, but it is a sin to drink the way he drinks. I would need an extensive history of his drinking, family, social issues, emotional issues, etc., to be able to provide a valid "treatment plan," if you will, but essentially he is making excuses -- in denial.

He has a problem. He knows he has a problem. He doesn't want to give up drinking. He loves it more than he loves God. He may love drinking more than he loves his wife, though undoubtedly he would deny that. But I would paint him a picture of his life, after he told me about himself. I would point out where he has said one thing but lived another. I would show him that his testimony does not match his walk.

He needs to surrender his will to God. God has no desire for him to live in slavery to alcohol. And God has no desire to use him as an evangelist while he lives in slavery to alcohol. His first step is to admit he has a problem. His second step is become willing to surrender it to God. His third step is to do so.

If he gets there, then he can be helped. But not before.

As for the rest of you ... C'mon, guys, if you're going to discuss addictions, get some knowledge, please! It is neither as simple, nor as complex, as people want to make it. Essentially, it is the result of sin and shortcoming in the life of the addict, and a seeking after ways to relieve the anger, anxiety and fear that sin and shortcoming creates in the mind and the spirit.

A couple years ago, the American Society of Addiction Medicine came up with a very accurate definition of what constitutions addiction. It embraces the spiritual, psychological, and physiological realities of addiction:

ASAM: Definition of Addictionhttp://www.asam.org/advocacy/find-a...ements/2011/12/15/the-definition-of-addictionhttp://www.asam.org/advocacy/find-a...ements/2011/12/15/the-definition-of-addiction

Addiction is a primary, chronic disease of brain reward, motivation, memory and related circuitry. Dysfunction in these circuits leads to characteristic biological, psychological, social and spiritual manifestations. This is reflected in an individual pathologically pursuing reward and/or relief by substance use and other behaviors.

Addiction is characterized by inability to consistently abstain, impairment in behavioral control, craving, diminished recognition of significant problems with one’s behaviors and interpersonal relationships, and a dysfunctional emotional response. Like other chronic diseases, addiction often involves cycles of relapse and remission. Without treatment or engagement in recovery activities, addiction is progressive and can result in disability or premature death.

What follows that opening, simplified definition is an in-depth explanation of each aspect of it. I'd encourage all of you to read it. Addiction, as the definition says, is about pursing reward or seeking relief. The reward is in the feeling found from abusing whatever substance, or engaging in whatever sinful behavior, is found by the individual to produce the best result. The relief sought in almost every addict I've ever known or treated -- myself included -- was in masking that failure in life that causes too much pain for the addict to bear, or at least that is what he/she believes.

The answer, of course, is Christ. Getting people to the cross isn't easy when they believe they are useless, unloved, a pariah. It takes time, a great deal of understanding, and a clear expression of love and caring as conveyed through the Gospel.

I catch a lot of flak from some here for my profession. That last sentence describes exactly what I do. Understanding the motivations as well as the emotional framework, the basics of knowledge each person has regarding love, family, responsibility, etc., makes each client a unique new study in addiction. To preach the Gospel to them, and get them to a point of not only desiring recovery, but also Christ, requires people who help addicts to know as much about them as possible before they can crack the shell of resistance and addiction. It takes time, it takes patience, it takes knowledge.

Above all else, it takes Christ. Only He can lead me to their hearts where I can reach them.

 

[HAMel]

A couple years ago, the American Society of Addiction Medicine came up with a very accurate definition of what constitutions addiction. It embraces the spiritual, psychological, and physiological realities of addiction:

For years..., AA has referred to it as a spiritual, mental and physical problem.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

For years..., AA has referred to it as a spiritual, mental and physical problem.

I'm well aware of that. But this is the first effort by a professional addictions treatment association to embrace all three aspects of what addiction is. It is an excellent definition, particularly the detail the webpage goes into, if you'd like to read the whole thing.

Perhaps you missed my direct advice to Jon?

His first step is to admit he has a problem. His second step is become willing to surrender it to God. His third step is to do so.

If he gets there, then he can be helped. But not before.

 

[HAMel]

this..., no I didn't miss your original post at all and I agree with it. An addiction is a three pronged fork and it takes much to overcome. One never gets "over it" they just learn how to deal with it.

...do you think someone can become "addicted" to the Bible? Addicted in such a way they go off the deep end?

 

[blackbird]

Yet many can take that sip - or many sips over their lifetime - and never be controlled or intoxicated.

I beg to differ----in that the ones who can take a sip and never be contolled merely do not realize they are being controlled---but to the extent that the alcohol is injested---to that extent---it(the alcohol) has taken control!!:wavey:----ever so slightly---but still controlling---if so be that its just a wee bit of the mind---it still controls---thus I surrender myself to never come to the point that I will be controlled by even a wee sip!! See??

 

[righteousdude2]

This is a fact...

I beg to differ----in that the ones who can take a sip and never be contolled merely do not realize they are being controlled---but to the extent that the alcohol is injested---to that extent---it(the alcohol) has taken control!!:wavey:----ever so slightly---but still controlling---if so be that its just a wee bit of the mind---it still controls---thus I surrender myself to never come to the point that I will be controlled by even a wee sip!! See??

If you drink but not to drunkenness, and you can not help but drink again, it means alcohol controls you. If you are not under the control of any form of liquor , than you should never have need to drink again, this is a good point by Blkbrd.

 

[corndogggy]

If you drink but not to drunkenness, and you can not help but drink again, it means alcohol controls you.

I can not help but to take ibuprofen again. Does it control me?

 

[preacher4truth]

I beg to differ----in that the ones who can take a sip and never be contolled merely do not realize they are being controlled---but to the extent that the alcohol is injested---to that extent---it(the alcohol) has taken control!!:wavey:----ever so slightly---but still controlling---if so be that its just a wee bit of the mind---it still controls---thus I surrender myself to never come to the point that I will be controlled by even a wee sip!! See??

I disagree with this whole-heartedly as it isn't Scriptural in the least. No one takes a sip, then, in so doing do not realize they are being controlled.

If so Paul would have never instructed the pastor at Ephesus to take a little ('sip') wine for his infirmities. To do so would have placed him under control of alcohol, and Paul would then be a false teacher. Thankfully this truth was prior to fundamentalist teachings.

Jesus drank wine, and thus was ridiculed a 'winebibber' just as He also ate and was called a 'glutton'. :thumbs:

 

[preacher4truth]

I can not help but to take ibuprofen again. Does it control me?

I took 4 a couple hours ago -- back pain, headache.

Now Aleve is another subject altogether!!!! :tongue3:

 

[preacher4truth]

Let's also consider that Paul asked the Corinthians after drinking at love feasts, if they had not houses to do this in. He NEVER rebuked them for consuming alcohol. 1 Corinthians 11:22. :thumbsup:

 

[Tom Butler]

A friend of mine observed that the one who says he can take it or leave it alone is usually taking it at the time.

Not always universally true, but I have rarely found one leaving it alone when he ways he can have it either way.

 

[righteousdude2]

I can not help but to take ibuprofen again. Does it control me?

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