To My Fellow believers here Of DoG PLEASE stop calling Calvinism the Gospel!

[seekingthetruth]

I do wish we could get folks on our side to see this.

Too many of our DoG brethren think that you can win "non-cals" over with sweetness.

You can't.

You won't win many over with any means you use.

But you will win some with blunt facts.

Those you win that way will be better off because they were not petted in- they were persuaded in.

And you think that your rudeness and animosity helps?

John

 

[seekingthetruth]

I do wish we could get folks on our side to see this.

Too many of our DoG brethren think that you can win "non-cals" over with sweetness.

You can't.

You won't win many over with any means you use.

But you will win some with blunt facts.

Those you win that way will be better off because they were not petted in- they were persuaded in.

And one more thing, if you would concentrate on winning over the lost instead of us regular christians, then you might actually help the Kingdom.

I am already saved, leave me alone.

John

 

[Grasshopper]

Or that jesus originated the DoG!

believe that in matter of how God functions in Sotierology, the DoG do indeed express the salvation model best, but ANY theological system exoplains the Gospel, but are NOT it!

Same way, jesus did NOT originate/author DoG, could say that the Holy Spirit indeed did, but by claiming jesus as author directly implies non cals denying jesus!

Now , back to the ole cal Vrs Arm debates!

As soon as you quit posting 20 new topics a day. Deal JesusFan/DaChaser?

 

[seekingthetruth]

As soon as you quit posting 20 new topics a day. Deal JesusFan/DaChaser?

Now that grasshopper, we can agree on!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

John

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

As soon as you quit posting 20 new topics a day. Deal JesusFan/DaChaser?

AMEN....Chill out JF. What you are doing has gotten old & tired. Yes, continue posting on Edifying topics but you seem to make a topic from anything that pops into your head.....slow down brother....remember, quality & not quantity.

Regards

 

[DaChaser1]

And one more thing, if you would concentrate on winning over the lost instead of us regular christians, then you might actually help the Kingdom.

I am already saved, leave me alone.

John

thank God that you are saved...

just requesting that you take a step back and try to see just why at times calvinism just might be right in regards to how we ALL got saved by garce of God!

 

[Skandelon]

The lurkers will see the truth of God...if God allows them to.

This is a point worthy of consideration. Why would God NOT want some people to see the truth?

We know that he hid the truth from the Jews temporarily in order to accomplish redemption for the world on the cross, but why do you suppose God is still keeping truth from most of humanity, and even some of his own children?

I look forward to this answer... raying:

 

[Skandelon]

When you boil it down, what you are really opposed to is Predestination.

Predestination as defined by Calvinists, yes. Biblical predestination, no. God predetermined that whosoever believes, whether of Abrahams seed or not, will be adopted as his sons and conformed to the image of Christ. That is the biblical doctrine of predestination and the one I love and embrace because it gives me assurance that I, a non-Jewish believer, will be adopted and conformed because God predestined it to be so.

All Doctrines of Grace Believers maintain that God has predestined a great number to be conformed to the image of His Son (Rom.8: 28-30)

While leaving a great many more without hope. You can't leave that part out. It may offend but it is true.

It is the great purpose of God to lift a people up from sin and corruption and make them like Jesus Christ. That to us is glorious!

Its great news for a preselected few, but terrible news for the mass of humanity. My view of predestination is great new for whosoever believes, your view of predestination is great news only for those individuals blessed enough to be picked.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

While leaving a great many more without hope. You can't leave that part out. It may offend but it is true.

Its great news for a preselected few, but terrible news for the mass of humanity. My view of predestination is great new for whosoever believes, your view of predestination is great news only for those individuals blessed enough to be picked.

Oh no, not that tired & worn out wringing of hands......please spare me the nonscense & tell it to someone gullible enough to get incensed by your bizarre sense of justice. Again you HAVE TO apply your humanistic thinking process in here dont you. I will tell you what I told Webdog because cutting & pasting is the marvel of computer science. :smilewinkgrin:

By contrast, Doctrines of Grace theology insists that salvation is by grace from beginning to end. Salvation is a gift, in every sense of the word---God's gift for undeserving sinners who cannot be redeemed apart from God's saving grace. The gift is given to those to whom God chooses to give it

Now by your theological construct, millions of people who cant possibly save themselves (because of their sin nature) do go to hell. I myself was one of those & the fella I just got off the phone with was another.......I guess so was Paul. By your beliefs, we would be destined to hell........ but here is the thing chief, WE ARE SAVED by grace. Again, you'd have us in hell. as you say & through the advances of Computer I can even quote you almighty MOD...." You can't leave that part out. It may offend but it is true.[B][/B]

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

BTW...... "GIANTS" ..... :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Skandelon]

Oh no, not that tired & worn out wringing of hands......please spare me the nonscense & tell it to someone gullible enough to get incensed by your bizarre sense of justice.

Again you HAVE TO apply your humanistic thinking process in here dont you.

With all due respect but any doctrine made up by men and not from God is "humanistic" thus to assume your doctrine is correct and ours is false is just 'begging the question.' It is a circular immature debate fallacy and the lowest form of conversation. I freely choose not to engage with it...

Doctrines of Grace theology insists that salvation is by grace from beginning to end.

We do to! :thumbs:

Salvation is a gift , in every sense of the word

Us too :thumbs:

---God's gift for undeserving sinners who cannot be redeemed apart from God's saving grace. The gift is given to those to whom God chooses to give it
[/I]

Wow, three for three :thumbs: I'm glad we are agreeing so much.

I have no idea what you meant by that last part so I'll just leave it there and say, "Have a great night!"

 

[Skandelon]

And you think that your rudeness and animosity helps?

That along with God's predetermined, unchanging will to grant us whatever grace is needed to understand the 'truths' of Calvinism.

Maybe Luke things his rudeness is irresistible? :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Iconoclast]

This is a point worthy of consideration. Why would God NOT want some people to see the truth?
We know that he hid the truth from the Jews temporarily in order to accomplish redemption for the world on the cross, but why do you suppose God is still keeping truth from most of humanity, and even some of his own children?

I look forward to this answer... raying:

When we see that God has a plan and eternal purpose that is being unfolded in time ,and we know that the God we serve is only Holy ,Just,and good, I do not spend so much time questioning who he wants to save or who he will leave in their sin.

29The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

in other words we see verses like this;

7And also I have withholden the rain from you, when there were yet three months to the harvest: and I caused it to rain upon one city, and caused it not to rain upon another city: one piece was rained upon, and the piece whereupon it rained not withered.

The people are under the judgement of God for idolatry....God informs us that he sends judgements on them ...and yet they did not return to Him.
He is sovereign in His judgements...sending or witholding rain,etc.[ God is sovereign also with who receives His word...speaking of the rain;

2My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

8For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

10For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:

11So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

he knows why exactly and to what extent is the righteous judgement.
He reveals this to us ...as Deut29:29 says...then it is for us to know.


The same with God's electing grace. Why does he not elect everyone?
He has not purposed to in His holy and wise purpose. That is a revealed truth.

He never has purposed for everyone to be saved.If all men in and of themselves desired to be saved by God on His terms...he would save all such persons.
Scripture indicates that man does not desire God because his mind and will has become alienated from the life of God.
I believe the revealed truth on this.

We know that he hid the truth from the Jews temporarily in order to accomplish redemption for the world on the cross

We know this because it is a revealed truth!

but why do you suppose God is still keeping truth from most of humanity, and even some of his own children?

The wickedness of man is great....God is long suffering to-usward...not willing that any perish....but all of His children come to repentance.
He does everything well and exactly on time. Why does he let us go on in sin some times for many years...before saving us? because it is necessary.

Why does he allow jim elliot to be killed by the alka Indians in the rainforest?

Not a revealed truth, other than sometimes he calls us to be faithful unto death.

We are told to go into all the world...his word will not return void Isa55
Sometimes we bring salvation...sometimes condemnation....we are called to be faithful. the results belong to God.

 

[convicted1]

AMEN....Chill out JF. What you are doing has gotten old & tired. Yes, continue posting on Edifying topics but you seem to make a topic from anything that pops into your head.....slow down brother....remember, quality & not quantity.

Regards

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[DaChaser1]

Predestination as defined by Calvinists, yes. Biblical predestination, no. God predetermined that whosoever believes, whether of Abrahams seed or not, will be adopted as his sons and conformed to the image of Christ. That is the biblical doctrine of predestination and the one I love and embrace because it gives me assurance that I, a non-Jewish believer, will be adopted and conformed because God predestined it to be so.

While leaving a great many more without hope. You can't leave that part out. It may offend but it is true.

Its great news for a preselected few, but terrible news for the mass of humanity. My view of predestination is great new for whosoever believes, your view of predestination is great news only for those individuals blessed enough to be picked.

God individual elects unto etrnal life thom whom he has favor upon...

based upon His will alone...

Again, how can God use his foreknowledge to elect us into His paln to have the saved in the Body of Christ, Church, Since He knows also that since we dead in our sins and by very nature enemies to God and His way to save us, God could not save us as you see it, NONE would ever be incorprated into the Church!