To the blasted flag-wavers at my church...

None of your photos dipict what I would consider "flagging".

In the first example (gc2kb09) are a procession of banners. Banners declare a message and yours appear to represent the tribes of Israel (unless I misinterpret them). A banner is held in the upright position and is not "waved" back and forth or around. They remain rigidly fixed for the most part.

In the second example (gc2kb06), the ladies are wearing streamers that accentuate their arm or hand movements and might best be called streamers and not flags.

And in the final example (gc2kb13), these ladies are expressing a liturgical interpretive dance ensemble that is choreographed to the music.

I have seen the middle and the latter ones performed and I have tried to be open minded about how a person may express their worship before the Lord. But I could never envision myself performing this way. These expressions too seem to go on forever and don't really do much except create a visual effect for the observer.

The flagging however as I understand it to be is performed with square and rectangular or triangular cloths on a staff and is flung about like a baton and waved low and high. This can be done on a stage or the altar and even in the aisles.

I got the impression from the way it was described by Matt Black that the flaggers were either in the aisle or up in front of the congregation where Matt stood or sat on the front row.

If this interferes with a person's worshipful attention, perhaps Matt should remove himself to part of the congregation where this acitivy is minimized.

I have been in a service where one female felt the need to dance about in her place where she stood and it became distracting in that her movements took the focus off the Lord and placed the focus on her. Flagging also would seem to have that effect too.

 

rsr---we see the reasoning behind your hypothesis(souped up theory)---but I'm tellin' ya from the "get-go" that if any of this involves and revolves and esculates and decends and twirls and whirls and spins and rotates around what some would deem as "Lit Robes"----leave me out of it, OK!!! Wave a flag in my face---just don't make me wear a robe!!!

 

Nothing wrong with clapping your hands as praise unto the Lord...

"O clap your hands, all ye people; shout unto God with the voice of triumph."
Psalm 47:1

 

I can keep my affections set on things above without turning my back on the country I love.

Yes, I am a citizen of another country, one whose builder and maker is God, but until then, my heart will go on singing. Even when I am raptured out, I won't have the time to even think about my back being turned in any direction, it'll happen too fast.

Matt, if you're disatisfied with the worship in your church, weither go to the pastor, or leave, maybe starting a "non-flag" waving assembly

I endure sitting through an ensemble song and have to see the others not singing paint their smiles on their faces. It's proper entertainment etiqutte, I understand.

 

Matt Black

Several years ago at the church where I belonged at that time they brought in a bunch of banners. They didn't wave them around, just marched down the aisle and stood at the front of the congregation. I talked to the pastor [fortunately we had a pastor one could talk to] asked him the Biblical basis for such practice and indicated it reminded me of scenes from pagam movies. The flags were not used again.

 

I hate to rain on a parade, so to speak, but when Jesus comes back, there will be a WHOLE lot more than flag waving going on! God seems to enjoy Banner Waving, Incense Burning, Making Joyful Noises, Blowing Horns, etc. according to the OT. He's even been known to have some pretty dramatic choreography, such as seas parting and suddenly closing, etc.

 

Yet another example of unbiblical practices invading a church.

What's sad with this is that most people probably object, but will not make it known in order to appease a few. That is dangerous. We should never give in for the sake of peace when our church is falling into disorder.

Good for Matt that he will stand and voice his objections. He will probably find more people will back him up once he does.

 

This is the original post by Brother Matt---to which I have made several reply posts as well----and I might as well say this----I owe several people an apology----see----because when I read this original---I was under the impression that the flag in question was the Austrailian "colors"---and I was posting under the assumption that Matt didn't like the "colors" on display at his particular church----and I posted that yes---one day I will turn my back on the USA as well as Matt will one day turn his back on the country "Down Under"----thinking we were talking about the flags of our country-----well----the original is not about flags of our country but the little frilly scarves and material that some churches use to worship----ummmmmmmmm----"creatively"-----to which I can say----

Hey Matt!!! I'm sorry, too---Brother!!! I don't like the whole creative worship concept myself either----just not my idea of "worship friendly"-----but hey----look on the bright side---at least they were wavein' colored scarves and weren't swinging baseball bats!!!!

So---everyone please accept my apology!!!

Blackbird

 

Blackbird, I thought it was the Flag of the UK he was complaining about. What do I know?

 

On the other hand when you worship God in spirit and in truth (openly) all manner of enthralling gladdened worship may take you to another level. All you straight-laced Christians who can't get excited over a worshipful experience might want to consider that when our Lord returns you'll likely see a lot more than flag-waving going on and THEN what will your thoughts be??? Jesus will know........

(LadyEagle made a good point a few posts back)

 

You are judging our attitude toward Christ based on how we want to worship. If we want to worship in a different way, that is equally valid. I don't begrudge anyone waving banners, but likewise, no one should judge the quality of my worship based on whether I am standing/sitting still, jumping around, waving banners, dancing, etc., or not. God looks on the heart (inner person).

Not wanting to wave banners or move around does not mean I'm "straight-laced." I think by that word you are meaning "uptight" or something similar. All the jumping around in the world does not necessarily mean a worshipful spirit.

 

It appears you have much influence in your church.

Banners with Christian symbols are beautiful, symbolic, and nicely decorate the sanctuary. The proper use of them does not violate Scripture. The only violation would be worshipping them as a graven image. If one opposes Banners with Christian symbols in our worship centers, then it would be consistent to oppose symbols of the Cross as well. Of course, some churches choose to avoid all symbols including the Cross and that's okay.

 

Matt,

I understand. My response was directed to OldRegular, who was proud to announce that he put a stop to the use of Banners in his church after making some reference to "pagans".

--Jeff

 

yep!

 

His banner over me is love!

Hmmm? I wonder if that's scriptural?

Keep waving that banner please Jesus?

 

"Can't we Just get along?"
--Rodney King