To the Calvinists here: what part of Non cal theology Bothers you the Most?

[Herald]

Although I was once a BBFI pastor, I do not consider myself in any fashion a fundamentalist by their interpretation. I do however adhere to true fundamentalist tenets of the faith.

As far as the KJVO cultists within them, their neo-pharisaism, hateful-spiritedness towards others who don't follow their man-made traditions, foolish preaching on their bibliolatry, politicking via personality worship, and a horrendously shallow theology &c -- I am glad to say I was never a part of any of that mess.

Let's just say moving from the NE to the MW put me in the midst of this neo-pharisaical sect. I never saw any of this where I was saved. It is rampant in these parts.

- Blessings

That's why I qualified the neo-pharisaical brand of fundamentalism. Their view of sanctification places a yoke on the necks of people that they cannot bear. It's not just wrong, it's dangerous.

 

[preacher4truth]

That's why I qualified the neo-pharisaical brand of fundamentalism. Their view of sanctification places a yoke on the necks of people that they cannot bear. It's not just wrong, it's dangerous.

Yes sir, I agree.

- Blessings

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

In all actuality it is you who have called me the same as they did Christ. I've never uttered such a slander.

He is right, you are blind guides. You cannot even begin to see your problem without divine aid and mercy.

Now there is the point....none of us can!

 

[DrJamesAch]

Although I was once a BBFI pastor, I do not consider myself in any fashion a fundamentalist by their interpretation. I do however adhere to true fundamentalist tenets of the faith.

As far as the KJVO cultists within them, their neo-pharisaism, hateful-spiritedness towards others who don't follow their man-made traditions, foolish preaching on their bibliolatry, politicking via personality worship, and a horrendously shallow theology &c -- I am glad to say I was never a part of any of that mess.

Let's just say moving from the NE to the MW put me in the midst of this neo-pharisaical sect. I never saw any of this where I was saved. It is rampant in these parts.

- Blessings

Wow is that ever the pot calling the kettle black "hateful-spirited toward others" and yet when Winam, HOS, myself or anyone disagrees with you, we get called names, told he much more spiritual YOU are, and he we are less than real Christians, we have no spiritual maturity, we don't study the Bible, we don't love God, we don't care about truth, on and on and on and on. And yet YOU are not a Pharisse, and YOU are the morally spiritual one.

My initial dialogue with you and everyone else was cordial until you started with your vitriol. But in the process, I have seen all of your cards on the table. Your worldliness, your ego: I mean wow, who keeps a tally of how many believers voted against another believer? What kind of Christian tells someone they are "OWNED" and got "Thumped by the BIble" because they think they won a debate?

And what kind of Christians sides with the Pharisees against Christ?

 

[preacher4truth]

[/B]

Now there is the point....none of us can!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :applause:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I was part of this type of fundamentalism once; the Bob Jones, Word of Life, Pensacola, Tennessee Temple brand of fundamentalism. Neo-Pharisee is right. The issue isn't whether one engages in Christian liberty. The real issue is fundamentalist arrogance.

Not all BJ Trained Pastors develop into Neo-Pharisee's (Evidence the IFB Church in Parsippany/ Pastor is a Calvinist).

 

[Herald]

Not all BJ Trained Pastors develop into Neo-Pharisee's (Evidence the IFB Church in Parsippany/ Pastor is a Calvinist).

There are always exceptions.

 

[Herald]

Not all BJ Trained Pastors develop into Neo-Pharisee's (Evidence the IFB Church in Parsippany/ Pastor is a Calvinist).

Also, some of us have been liberated from their clutches and brainwashing.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Also, some of us have been liberated from their clutches and brainwashing.

Thats my point. :laugh:

 

[preacher4truth]

My initial dialogue with you and everyone else was cordial until you started with your vitriol. But in the process, I have seen all of your cards on the table. Your worldliness, your ego: I mean wow, who keeps a tally of how many believers voted against another believer? What kind of Christian tells someone they are "OWNED" and got "Thumped by the BIble" because they think they won a debate?

And what kind of Christians sides with the Pharisees against Christ?

My friend,

We don't think we've won, we in fact did win. Your assumptions were proven incorrect by actual Calvinist/Reformed/DoG brothers and sisters, not to mention the Word of God.

Yes, your initial dialogue started off cordial until your true self emerged...but now it's everyone else's fault. The problem my friend is with you and this is why you see this pattern 'happening' to you in this forum.

While I will readily admit that my word usage above was inappropriate the results of said words represent the event factually. You have been proven incorrect by the Word. I do however apologize to you my friend.

As far as pointing to a poll, there is nothing remotely sinful in so doing. It is simply another indicator showing your assumptions about the Reformed/Calvinist/DoG brethren incorrect. That is what you find 'sinful'. :love2:

- Blessings

 

[preacher4truth]

Also, some of us have been liberated from their clutches and brainwashing.

I was harassed by these cultic types by telephone (local pastors) to be KJVO, over 'alien-immersion' (not once did I baptize a Martian) had my steps dogged over using 'canned music' had a deacon tell my church (while on vacation) 'Our preacher is wrong, if you use anything other than the KJV you're going to hell!!!' and other ridiculous things have happened.

[snipped]

 

[agedman]

I was harassed by these cultic types by telephone (local pastors) to be KJVO, over 'alien-immersion' (not once did I baptize a Martian) had my steps dogged over using 'canned music' had a deacon tell my church (while on vacation) 'Our preacher is wrong, if you use anything other than the KJV you're going to hell!!!' and other ridiculous things have happened.

What a joy to not be a part of this cult.

This 'canned music,' does it come from Bess' Pork and Beans?

 

[preacher4truth]

This 'canned music,' does it come from Bess' Pork and Beans?

:laugh: :laugh: :thumbsup:

That was great!!!!

 

[Herald]

I was harassed by these cultic types by telephone (local pastors) to be KJVO, over 'alien-immersion' (not once did I baptize a Martian) had my steps dogged over using 'canned music' had a deacon tell my church (while on vacation) 'Our preacher is wrong, if you use anything other than the KJV you're going to hell!!!' and other ridiculous things have happened.

What a joy to not be a part of this cult.

The enemy is within the camp, not just in the world. Spurgeon opposed the English Baptist Union over the downgrade controversy. We have hyper fundamentaliats. Different error, same result. If you point out their falsehood you are in Satan's camp. No bother. You have to expect snakes to strike when you rustle their nest. But maybe, just maybe, some may be rescued from their white washed tomb theology.

 

[Iconoclast]

Ach

You say I have no knowledge of what Calvinists teach,

correct...i would not say ...No Knowledge...but mostly false, contrived ,caricatures

but yet you disagree when I say that 2 Peter 3:9 says that God is not willing that any should perish.

How you used the verse was a falsehood

That proves that you understand that I understand that the Calvinist do not believe that this verse means God does not punish sinners according to plan.

it does not prove this....

I stated that Calvinists believe that God does not save all. Is that incorrect?

All christians believe that God does not save all...if they are orthodox.

If that is correct, then it's not a straw man argument. I have correctly stated that Calvinists believe that sinners are determined to perish.

The bible teaches that sinners perish....christians believe that.

In refuting that, I have sited 2 Peter 3:9 and Ezekiel. Your disagreeing with how I view the verse, does not make my stating of the Calvinist position a straw man argument.

It does....you do it so ofeten you do not realize it.

Not to be offensive here, but I believe you and a few others should take a few moments to look up some philosophy sources on what the proper definition of a straw man argument really is because it is being consistently misused. [Now before you go saying that I am recommending philosophy, keep in mind that "straw man" is not a Biblical term, but is in fact, a term in philosophy among the category of fallacious arguments]

This is not the point...we all know what is at issue...this is to use your terminology...a red herring:wavey:

Now this verse only says what you say it doesn't say if you read a presuppostional stance into the text. But what does 2 Peter 3:9 actually say?

No...in context it has a very clear meaning....the other poster correctly mentioned already it is addressed to the elect,and when it gets to chapter 3:1-16...it is a clear contrast between the scoffer,and the believer...

God is long suffering....TO usward....not willing that any perish...
the text is declaring not one of God's true elect people will perish...He is not willing that any of them perish, hence the long-suffering...

Greek tim called you on your "doctorate". No one with proper training would say these things......verses out of context, calling GT a drunk, another man , moron, etc.....repent:thumbsup:


]

 

[Yeshua1]

God knowing all things and even knowing it ahead of time does not mean that He is obligated or that He ACTS on what He knows. God did not originally make tree leaves as a covering for Adam's nakedness, but after Adam sinned, God improvised. The verses I cited from Matthew and Isaiah 5 clearly show that hell was not intended for human sinners.

God had ordained/decreed before the fall happened, that he would be the One to bring to pass what would happen there i that event!

God was not caught sleeping, did not see that coming, had to go to plan B etc..

You seem to equate God sovereignty as being His foreknowledge of events, NOT because of His predestination!

So he did not forsee the fall? Do you hold that God waits to see what we do first, that he has blinded himself to the future, ignorant until we actually amke a decision?

 

[Yeshua1]

It is amazing that you responded to the issue about alcohol, and ignored the issue about you siding with the Pharisees about Christ. I guess that proves what's more important to you.

Now for your lesson about alcohol, because AA apparently isn't helping you (not that it could),

"Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise." Prov 20:1

"Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them!" Isaiah 5:11

"And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit" Eph 5:18

" For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation." 1 Thess 5:7-8

Got the hint yet? There's more if you still need help

jesus tuened the water into Great wine, not welches grape juice!

 

[Yeshua1]

My friend,

We don't think we've won, we in fact did win. Your assumptions were proven incorrect by actual Calvinist/Reformed/DoG brothers and sisters, not to mention the Word of God.

Yes, your initial dialogue started off cordial until your true self emerged...but now it's everyone else's fault. The problem my friend is with you and this is why you see this pattern 'happening' to you in this forum.

While I will readily admit that my word usage above was inappropriate the results of said words represent the event factually. You have been proven incorrect by the Word. I do however apologize to you my friend.

As far as pointing to a poll, there is nothing remotely sinful in so doing. It is simply another indicator showing your assumptions about the Reformed/Calvinist/DoG brethren incorrect. That is what you find 'sinful'. :love2:

- Blessings

Just curious, do you see 3 seperate groups of Chrsitians under reformed/Cal/DoG, that we go from fully calvinistic, whole system, to just taking the sotierology side of the system?

 

[Yeshua1]

What a joke! Your children were born speaking lies? How did you know they were lying, do you speak gobbilty-goop?

And if you take verse 3 as literal, do you take the following verses literally as well?

Psa 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
4 Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;
5 Which will not hearken to the voice of charmers, charming never so wisely.
6 Break their teeth, O God, in their mouth: break out the great teeth of the young lions, O LORD.
7 Let them melt away as waters which run continually: when he bendeth his bow to shoot his arrows, let them be as cut in pieces.
8 As a snail which melteth, let every one of them pass away: like the untimely birth of a woman, that they may not see the sun.

Were your children born poisonous like an adder shown in verse 4? My, that would make breast feeding rather dangerous don't you think? :laugh:

Were your children born with a mouthful of great teeth like a young lion's as shown in verse 6? That would be rather startling to see!

Did they melt like snails as shown in verse 8? Better keep salt away from them!

This shows how ridiculous this view is. Psalm 58 is obvious exaggeration and should not be taken literally. To form doctrine from this Psalm is pure foolishness, that was not the purpose of this Psalm.

And what language did your children speak when they truly began to speak? Mine spoke English, just as their mother and father spoke. All children speak the language of their parents. You don't have a child with English speaking parents speak Spanish, or any other language. Therefore it is obvious children learn language and the ability to speak from hearing their parents and siblings around them. This is also where they hear lies and LEARN to lie.

Amazing the nonsense you have to endure from seemingly intelligent people.

My 2 boys were born with sin natures, and they evidenced them pretty early on!

 

[Yeshua1]

Well put. Some have exposed that conflict in Calvinism before. God would (if the determinist be correct) essentially be constantly debating by proxy with himself at any time there is disagreement about Calvinism. If Calvinism is true, than God is consistently playing a Theological Chess match with himself.......in fact, this thread would be that very thing. God, by proxy, debating Theology with himself. It's absurd.
The reality of the situation is as you explained it here:

God happens to be Omnipotent enough and Sovereign enough to choose whether he does or does not WANT to causally determine all things. And he has simply chosen not to. Obviously, he COULD....but, he can choose not to if he so pleases. And he has elected not to.

God is infinite in all of his attrubutes, so He is not merely 'enough!"