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"To Think, To Reason, To Judge!" Biblical Apologetics in the Field of Christian Theology and Science.

cjab

Member
It is true that taxonomic (taxon = group of organisms) rank originated in, and was confined to, phenomenological considerations - groups posited on the basis of similarities in appearance, organic structure and behavior. But, the subsequent science of Cladistics provided an alternative method, involving "classification of life forms according to the proportion of characteristics that they have in common (called synapomorphies). It is assumed that the higher the proportion of characteristics that two organisms share, the more recently they both came from a common ancestor." [Wiki]

An ancillary method, molecular systematics, based on genetic analysis is "especially useful when few phenotypi characters can resolve relationships, as, for instance, in many viruses, bacteria and archaea, or to resolve relationships between taxa that arose in a fast evolutionary radiation that occurred long ago, such as the main taxa of placental mammals." [wiki]

Origin is important where different biological groups arise at different time periods. Perhaps the most obvious mutations are seen in viruses, which mutate and change all the time.

Perhaps the biggest creationist fallacy is to posit that all animal species that ever lived all existed at the same point in time on the surface of the earth. Re extinction, over 5 billion species are estimated to have already died out. 300 mammalian species have been erased during the human era since the Late Pleistocene. OTOH, "The Norwegian lemming (Lemmus lemmus) is among the most recently evolved mammal species, with new research indicating it split from its closest relative, the Western Siberian lemming, only about 35,000 years ago." [AI]

Given the fossil record, the widely different locations of fossils, and the various radiometric dating techniques, it is absurd to posit that all extant life forms whose remains can be detected all existed at the same time on the earth's surface. The dying out of "kinds," mutation of extant "kinds" into new "kinds" is ongoing.

Seems to me, you're either willing to espouse science, or you just reject science as "not in the bible." Well, science isn't in the bible, and there is no denying it, but also, there is no reason why it should be there. Such is bibliolatry, and misuse of the scriptures which are not to be construed as "the definitive guide to science."

The lawyer analogy is not to point as occupation in a civilized society doesn't reflect genetic make-up, but social considerations.
 
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Ben1445

Well-Known Member
It is true that taxonomic (taxon = group of organisms) rank originated in, and was confined to, phenomenological considerations - groups posited on the basis of similarities in appearance, organic structure and behavior. But, the subsequent science of Cladistics provided an alternative method, involving "classification of life forms according to the proportion of characteristics that they have in common (called synapomorphies). It is assumed that the higher the proportion of characteristics that two organisms share, the more recently they both came from a common ancestor." [Wiki]
Which assumes that God did not make them as He said He did.
Wiki? Really? You are indeed, a pseudo scientist.
An ancillary method, molecular systematics, based on genetic analysis is "especially useful when few phenotypi characters can resolve relationships, as, for instance, in many viruses, bacteria and archaea, or to resolve relationships between taxa that arose in a fast evolutionary radiation that occurred long ago, such as the main taxa of placental mammals." [wiki]
Your sources are laughable. You have no credibility. No wonder you believe all these fairy tales about frogs changing into something else, princes, was it? You take information as fact that could have no truth at all and make it proof of whatever you want to believe. Which article was that? I can go change it right now.

Origin is important where different biological groups arise at different time periods. Perhaps the most obvious mutations are seen in viruses, which mutate and change all the time.
Ah! The ultimate trust the science position. We have already been over this fallacy in this thread.

Perhaps the biggest creationist fallacy is to posit that all animal species that ever lived all existed at the same point in time on the surface of the earth. Re extinction, over 5 billion species are estimated to have already died out. 300 mammalian species have been erased during the human era since the Late Pleistocene. OTOH, "The Norwegian lemming (Lemmus lemmus) is among the most recently evolved mammal species, with new research indicating it split from its closest relative, the Western Siberian lemming, only about 35,000 years ago." [AI]
Thanks. Fake intelligence quoting someone else’s errors. Who else? No idea.

Given the fossil record, the widely different locations of fossils, and the various radiometric dating techniques, it is absurd to posit that all extant life forms whose remains can be detected all existed at the same time on the earth's surface. The dying out of "kinds," mutation of extant "kinds" into new "kinds" is ongoing.
It is absurd that you feel as if all of these may be dated as if they were all as pure as a control group. Some of your extinct species do appear with the other fossils.
To posit that some 70 or 80 year old fossil of a scientist has millions of years of records straight when he is unable to remember what he did in his own lifetime that he was present for is absurd. To say that we should follow a “scientific” community that has been around for a couple centuries instead of a God who has been for eternity is absurd.
God said, “Let there be.” “And there was.” It didn’t say there became. It could have. It didn’t say it evolved. It could have if it were true.
The reality is that God spoke and it was the way He said it.

Seems to me, you're either willing to espouse science, or you just reject science as "not in the bible." Well, science isn't in the bible, and there is no denying it, but also, there is no reason why it should be there. Such is bibliolatry, and misuse of the scriptures which are not to be construed as "the definitive guide to science."
I suppose the best I can do is say that when you meet your Maker, you will be shocked at just how much science is in the Bible. If you could be honest with yourself, you would find that there is nothing in the Bible that is unscientific. There are things that are supernatural, that is, requiring the input of the Creator who is above nature. But even our scientific understanding allows for a system to be acted upon by an external source.
If you were genuinely honest about it you would recognize that since God is the external source of Creation, He can do whatever He pleases with it. You would also have to say that evolution is not a fact and is still only theory. And since 35,000 years ago nobody was collecting the data required for a scientific study, you are left with an unscientific hypothesis that relies on many other hypotheses.
But call me a science denier. :Rolleyes:Rolleyes That is a title that in today’s vernacular, I would wear boldly. You have claimed the title “science” for the general consensus community. It is disingenuous but it is done. You’re not the only one. I am reminded of of a warning given to Timothy.

1 Timothy 6:20
O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

It is amazing how a spiritual Book is able to pinpoint the errors of the physical world. Remember, without faith, it is impossible to please God. That means if you don’t believe what God says, you are not pleasing Him. I value His approval far more than yours. So I will keep the Bible committed to me and avoid any of your contrary teachings that attempt to latch themselves on to Truth.

The lawyer analogy is not to point as occupation in a civilized society doesn't reflect genetic make-up, but social considerations.
It is the same flaw of reasoning.


The Spiritual Book, the Bible makes a statement about how people don’t believe that what is recorded in Genesis is physically true.

2 Peter 3:5
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Do you allegorize that verse also?
 

cjab

Member
1 Tim 6:20 ".....the profane empty babblings and opposing arguments (antitheses of Christianity) of what is FALSELY CALLED knowledge" Science doesn't oppose the bible, but it is my experience that the creationist cult does in that it inculcates toxic contempt for anyone with a differing opinion to itself, which is not Christian in the least; and which contempt will certainly be brought into judgement as indefensible, and incompatible with the faith.
 

Ben1445

Well-Known Member
1 Tim 6:20 ".....the profane empty babblings and opposing arguments (antitheses of Christianity) of what is FALSELY CALLED knowledge" Science doesn't oppose the bible, but it is my experience that the creationist cult does.
And frogs turn into people! Right!:Cautious
 
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