Tongues as Evidence

I think it needs to be clarified that no one is disputing the fact that when we get saved we are filled with the Holy Spirit. What is in question is the fact that some believe that when you get saved you begin to speak in tongues...if this is true, there are a WHOLE lot of people who aren't truly saved...and I find that rather insulting because I KNOW that I am saved not based on emotion, but on BIBLICAL TRUTH.

Kathy
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Don:
MEE, when did the Ethiopian eunuch get saved?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Acts 8:35
When Philip preached unto the Ethiopian eunuch Jesus.

BTW Don, do you believe water baptism is a salvational issue?

MEE

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MEE:
posted February 22, 2002 12:05PM
DHK, how can you say such a thing? The Lord left His Spirit and nine spiritual gifts to His Church and you say that one of them has passed away? When? Why would He remove it?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did not say that he just took away one of them. I believe that all of the sign gifts of that age have ceased for today, not just tongues.
DHK

 

Attention members:

Please get in any final words before 10:00 pm on Monday. This thread will be closed at that time.

Thank You,

Joseph Botwinick
Moderator

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Don:
Just to muddy things up, and because we're probably going to get shut down pretty soon for going over the 3 page limit....

Is the Holy Ghost God? If so, is the gift of God and the gift of the Holy Spirit the same thing?

And Oneness, in all seriousness, DHK is just echoing what Paul told us about the matter in 1 Cor 14:34. If that's a problem, then your problem is with the Bible, not with DHK.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don I dont have a problem with the bible. You guys see Ch 14 as a rebuke to the church and that it is a bad thing to speak in tongues. It is not a bad thing for your spirit to pray.

Yes Paul did tell the Women at Corinth to keep silent in the church. But does that mean that they cant say anything at all?

No, If you understand the history then you understand why Paul said such a thing.

So, One more time, DId mary and the other women keep slient? I think not. THEY ALL SPOKE IN TONGUES WHEN THEY RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST. THE LAST TIME I CHECKED THE WOMEN ARE INCLUDED IN ALL

Now is there a contidiction in the bible? No it goes back to understanding why paul said what he did, and what he really meant by what he said.

If you say its wrong for women to speak in tongues then you say it is wrong for Mary and the Women on the day of Pentecost. But we all agree that they were not wrong correct?

God BLess
Brian

Could you guys pray for me tongiht as well. I am haveing a real tough time with something right now. Thanks again

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kathy:
I think it needs to be clarified that no one is disputing the fact that when we get saved we are filled with the Holy Spirit. What is in question is the fact that some believe that when you get saved you begin to speak in tongues...if this is true, there are a WHOLE lot of people who aren't truly saved...and I find that rather insulting because I KNOW that I am saved not based on emotion, but on BIBLICAL TRUTH.

Kathy
&lt;&gt;&lt;<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

kathy please dont get the idea that we are judgeing you. Your salvation is b/t you and God, Not me and what I believe.

God bless

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joseph Botwinick:
Attention members:

Please get in any final words before 10:00 pm on Monday. This thread will be closed at that time.

Thank You,

Joseph Botwinick
Moderator<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This subject has had to be shut down before because of the number of post. It was immediately opened again.
Why so much interest on this subject?
If (as some claim)Speaking in tongues is not for today, then why spend so much time dwelling on the subject?

 

This subject has had to be shut down before because of the number of post. It was immediately opened again.
Why so much interest on this subject?
If (as some claim)Speaking in tongues is not for today, then why spend so much time dwelling on the subject?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

IMO, I think it is because it does exist and most people don't understand the difference between the Gift of the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues and divers kinds of tongues. One will never understand what 1 Cor. 14 is talking about until you see that Acts 2:4 and 1 Cor. 14 *ARE NOT* the same opperation.

Yes, the operations are of the Spirit of God, but it's all in how it is used.

Some may say that it is not of God, but the Bible says that it came from heaven and it still exists today. (Acts 2:39)

Folks, you don't know what you are missing when you won't let God completely into your lives by ignoring the complete revelation of what God intended for all of us. (Acts 2:4 & Acts 2:38)

I'm not saying that you don't have a walk with the Lord, it's just that He has more for you. Don't settle for just walking ankle deep in water, go out as far as you can and get all of God that He intended for all of His saints.

This will probably be my last post, on this subject, since it will be shut down. All that I have said is because I love people and want to share the love of God. I don't mean to be harsh, like I know it all. Believe me there are a lot of things I need to learn and I love studying the Word.

God bless all of you!
MEE (Carol)


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DHK, I am still interested in to what you have to say about the women and mary speaking in tongues on the day of pentecost.

GodSpeed
Brian

 

In my opinion, the issue of whether or not tongues is still in practice is not going to be resolved. Perhaps we should take another avenue to assuage this message.

The tongues being referred to is simply a different language, not spiritual angelic speech to God, as you can see by the mention of all of those nations. They were amazed that Galileans could speak in ALL those other languages.

Then a few verses down it says this:

It's pretty obvious that the speaking of tongues was to convince unbelieving Jews...and that is evidenced by their constant disobedience and unbelief thru-out the OT.

Salvation is not based on experiences or emotions. It's based on the SOLID ROCK of faith in Jesus Christ ALONE. If you base your salvation on emotions and feelings and yes, speaking in tongues, seems like shaky ground to me. I'm grateful that Bible says these things:

Kathy
&lt;&gt;&lt;

 

I don't speak in tongues, I'm not even Baptist or Pentacostal. But what does it matter to those who don't speak it if others do? How does this effect your being "saved"? Why can't they worship the way they want and you worship your way? Do you think God really cares about this in the grand scheme of things?

 

Well, had you read the entire thread (cumbersome, I know! LoL) you would notice that it has been implied that IF you are saved you speak in tongues...so if you don't speak in tongues, it is being implied that you aren't saved. That is the first reason why this issue is in debate. The second reason is as stated in Don's post above...

Kathy
&lt;&gt;&lt;

 

The tongues being referred to is simply a different language, not spiritual angelic speech to God, as you can see by the mention of all of those nations. They were amazed that Galileans could speak in ALL those other languages.

Then a few verses down it says this:

It's pretty obvious that the speaking of tongues was to convince unbelieving Jews...and that is evidenced by their constant disobedience and unbelief thru-out the OT.

Salvation is not based on experiences or emotions. It's based on the SOLID ROCK of faith in Jesus Christ ALONE. If you base your salvation on emotions and feelings and yes, speaking in tongues, seems like shaky ground to me. I'm grateful that Bible says these things:

Kathy
&lt;&gt;&lt;</font>[/QUOTE]Speaking in tongues in Acts 2 and Acts 19 happened to people that were already saved.
This is not evidence of salvation but of recieving the Holy Spirit after they believed.

Paul was save on the road to Damascus but Annanias was sent that he might recieve his sightand that he might be filled with the Holy Spirit (some might say that Paul did not speak in tongues when this happen. We do know from I Corinthians 14 that he was one of those tongue talkers.)
If getting saved is all that ever happens to a believer , why did Annanias pray for paul to recieve the Holy Spirit after his conversion and why did Paul ask the Ephesians if they had recieved the Holy Spirit since they believed in Acts 19?
There is enough evidence in scripture to indicate that Speaking in Tongues is involved in being Baptized in the Holy Spirit.

We recieve the Holy Spirit at salvation and we know that in John 20:21-21 that the disciples were not only save but recieved the Holy Spirit when Jesus Blew upon them but Jesus still told them to go to Jerusalem until they were endued with power from on high and the term in Acts for this is called the Promise of the Father. Salvation comes from believing in our heart and confessing with our mouth that God has raised Jesus from the dead Romans 10:9&10.
The Baptism of the Holy spirit is another issue.

 

First off, I dont agree with the whole baptism of the Holy Spirit to be saved. Your are saved when you belive in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus is lord. Second, I seek after God's presence, I do not in anyway place any gift above my relationship with him.
peace,
OD

 

I found this interesting tidbit on my Bible study program.. I hope some find it helpful.. after all thats what iam here for.

TONGUES, GIFT OF
Foreign Languages Barred Out: These characteristics of an interpreter make it clear that "speaking in a tongue" at Corinth was not normally felt to be speaking in a foreign language. In verse 10 English Versions of the Bible are misleading with "there are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world," which suggests that Paul is referring directly to the tongues. But tosauta there should be rendered "very many," "ever so many," and the verse is as purely illustrative as is verse 7. Hence, foreign languages are to be barred out. (Still, this need not mean that foreign phrases may not occasionally have been employed by the speakers, or that at times individuals may not have made elaborate use of foreign languages. But such cases were not normative at Corinth.) Consequently, if "tongues" means "languages," entirely new languages must be thought of. Such might have been of many kinds (12:28), have been regarded as a fit creation for the conveyance of new truths, and may even at times have been thought to be celestial languages-the "tongues of angels" (13:1). On the other hand, the word for "tongue" (glossa) is of fairly common use in Greek to designate obsolete or incomprehensible words, and, specifically, for the obscure phrases uttered by an oracle. This use is closely parallel to the use in Corinth and may be its source, although then it would be more natural if the "ten thousand words in a tongue" of 14:19 had read "ten thousand glossai." In no case, however, can "tongue" mean simply the physical organ, for 14:18,19 speaks of articulated words and uses the plural "tongues" for a single speaker (compare verses 5,6).
(from International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, Electronic Database Copyright (c)1996 by Biblesoft)

Peace,
OD

[ February 23, 2002, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: ovrdose ]

 

ovrdose, on the other thread you said

But you were given biblical evidence, you just do not wish to listen to scripture on this subject. The bible is very clear, but you prefer man made dectrines rather then scripture.

 

The only thing speaking in toungues is evidence of is demon possesion

[ February 23, 2002, 11:51 PM: Message edited by: tulpje ]

 

We could debate this until Jesus returns, thanks for all you guy's and gal's input. As far demon possesion goes, dont be quick to judge what you might not understand..When speaking against the holy spirit. Well enough debate thanks again, will stear clear of these topics from now on. I'll stick to topics that more uplifting for the whole body of Christ. God bless you all
Peace,
OD