Tongues as the evidence of the Holy Spirit is not Biblical

[Chemnitz]

First of all the mormons and hindus are already in a heap of trouble. Second I don't believe you guys speak in tongues as according to the Bible. There is far too much evidence that the tongues that were spoken in the Bible were actual languages (1 cor 12:28; 14:8-12.

Oh I am acquantied with the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

He and I got acquantied in Sept of 1976 when I was baptised in the name of the Father and in the name of the Son and in the name of the Holy Spirit.

 

[MEE]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Godmetal:
First of all the mormons and hindus are already in a heap of trouble. Second I don't believe you guys speak in tongues as according to the Bible. There is far too much evidence that the tongues that were spoken in the Bible were actual languages (1 cor 12:28; 14:8-12.

Oh I am acquantied with the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

He and I got acquantied in Sept of 1976 when I was baptised in the name of the Father and in the name of the Son and in the name of the Holy Spirit.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm!......Godmetal, the Jewish people didn't/don't believe that Jesus was God manifestated in the flesh, which is according to the Bible, but that doesn't make them correct, does it?

Who said that tongues, in the Bible or of today, weren't launguages?

Godmetal, think about it! What is the NAME of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost?

MEE

 

[ONENESS]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>He and I got acquantied in Sept of 1976 when I was baptised in the name of the Father and in the name of the Son and in the name of the Holy Spirit. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

maybe you are in a heep of trouble.

Maybe you did get aquainted no one says that you did not. But so did the apostles. But they did not have the Holy Ghost until they were filled with it on the day of Pentecost.

How do you know God Metal that you have the HOly Ghost?

 

[Chemnitz]

Because I have faith and faith is created by the Holy Spirit.

 

[ONENESS]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> You said it is not impossible to answer this Biblically, you are just too busy to find out. You admit earlier that you don't know the answer so you are waiting for others to answer it for you.

I would ask you this, why do you already beleive this as truth when you admit you can't show me Biblically why? You believe what you have been taught or told or experienced, not what that Bible or the Holy Spirit has shown you.

As for busy people, I do understand that and have the same problem myself. I won't be able to keep up with the responses myself for awhile. We leave tomorrow for my daughter's surgery and we will gone a week or more.

When I posted this almost a week ago, I assumed that those who were so adamant that this were true would have been able to show me within a day or so. I didn't think it would take that long to show us something you believe so solidly as truth. I didn't think they would have to go to others for answers. If it's so True where is the proof? The proof isn't there, which you admit, yet you still will not admit that you are wrong.

~Lorelei
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, I am sorry that is has taken me so long I have been reading the book of Acts and Praying. Not as much as i should have been but I have been praying about this.

ok you are saying that tongues is not the evidence and i cannot show you in the bible that that is correct.

Now I cant give you the understanding, so pray that GOd would ok. Now here we go.

Acts 2 On the day of Pentecost they recieved the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues.

You say that it was not what we experience b/c every man heard him speak in his own language? Meaning that there was an interpretor present.

Acts 2 also says Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the Name of Jesus CHrist for the remmission of your sins and ye shall receive the gift of the holy ghost.

and after Peter Preached that the bible says that "they which gladly received his word were baptized and the same day there were added unto them about three thouand souls, And they continued stedfastly in the apostles doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers.

So the bible never says they spoke in tongues

Acts 8 the bible says they did not receive the Holy Ghost untill After the fact that they believed, After they were baptized and Untill after the fact that John and Peter layed hands on them, And the bible never records that they spoke in tongues.

Acts 8 when the Ethiopian believed and was baptized but the bible never states that he spoke in tongues?

Acts 10 you think there was an interpreter there b/c the Jews knew that they magnified God, SO that meant the Jews understood what the gentiles were saying when they spoke in tongues?

Acts 11 you will find many people being added to the church and many added unto the lord but it never states that they spoke in tongues.

Acts 16 Lyida was baptized but never states that she spoke in tongues

Acts 16 the jailer wanted to be saved and got baptized, but it never says he spoke in tongues.

Acts 18 Crispus and his house believed on the lord and they were baptized but never says they spoke in tongues

Acts 19 Johns deciples were believers of grace, were baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ and they recived the Holy Ghost and spake in tongues, but there was not an interpreter

Now I just breifly scanned over the rest of acts and did not notice anywhere else where it says they believed yadda yadda yadda. But I probably did miss some.

But for your question "where does it say in the bible that tongues is the evidence that someone has received the Holy Ghost"

Now does it come directly out and say that? No it does not, but if you look at scripture you can get a pretty good idea.

Let me bring this to your attention. If you look at all the verses where it talks about people believing and people being baptized How do we know that they repented? We all agree that Repentance is A number one MUST for salvation. But yet the bible never shares with us in these scriptures that one person repented of their sins.

So does this mean that they did not repent? I will let you be the judge of that. But For my self I know that the Repented. But yet the bible does not say that.

What about you.

Lets look at verse 8 for one second. The bible shows us here that they were filled with the Holy Ghost. But never states that they spoke in tongues. Well you might say "b/c they never did" And you may be right. But I believe that the same thing happened to them as it did to the apostles, the gentiles, Johns Decipels and so on and so forth.

Now for the interpretation part. I cant answer that question that good, b/c I am still unlearned. But looking at the book of Corintians there are two diffrent tongues, tongues of interpretation(diverse tongues)and an unknow tongue.

When you are baptized with the holy GHost you speak in an unknown tongue. "You speak mysteries unto God that only he can understand(1 Cor 1:2) not gibberish as you guys like to put it" It is a language but it is a language only God can understand.

Godmetal I think it was you that said that you do not believe in others testomonies but let me say this. One of the UPC's Foreign Missionaries was doing a crusade in another contry where no one speaks English. Antoher Preacher was invited to share the Gospel there and went to do so. At the alter call he proceeded to lay his hand on this one young fellows head and the Guy was praising God in English. The Pastor did not think any big deal of it and started to minister to someone else. As soon as he was walking away Everyone was cheering and Praising God and the Preacher did not understand why. So he asked the Missionary why everyone was praising God and Cheering. And He told him that that young fellow could not speak a word of English.

Now was the Tongues of Interpertation or was it a young man speaking in tongues b/c he received the HOly Ghost? Now you see the ministers did not need any interpretation so why would this guy speak in English? Was it for edification of the Church or No. But he spoke with another tongue.

Everything I have shared with you as come from the truth that I stand on. Yea I asked some people what they thought, but they really did not give me a whole lot of replys. So I took it to God in prayer and in fasting and this Is what I received out of it after studing it. I was not waiting on others to answer it for me but I was wanting to view other UPC members on their views. But like I said I guess the topic was over looked so I did not get what I was asking for. What I gave you come from my heart.

[ January 15, 2002: Message edited by: ONENESS ]

 

[MEE]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Godmetal:
Because I have faith and faith is created by the Holy Spirit.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Godmetal, Satan has faith and was created by the Holy Spirit, but he rebelled and it isn't going to get him very far.

Just having some fun with you!

 

[DHK]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ONENESS:

Let me bring this to your attention. If you look at all the verses where it talks about people believing and people being baptized How do we know that they repented? We all agree that Repentance is A number one MUST for salvation. But yet the bible never shares with us in these scriptures that one person repented of their sins.
So does this mean that they did not repent? I will let you be the judge of that. But For my self I know that the Repented. But yet the bible does not say that.
What about you.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ONENESS,
What is the difference in believing in these two verses?

Acts 16:31 "And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved,"
and,
James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also BELIEVE, and tremble."

Do both words here have exactly the same meaning?
DHK

 

[DHK]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MEE:
[QB]
Godmetal, Satan has faith and was created by the Holy Spirit, but he rebelled and it isn't going to get him very far.
/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

MEE,
What is faith? It is not a commodity to be carried around in your pocket to be used at any time you wish. Faith always, always has an object. What is the object of your faith? What was the object of Satan's faith?
The object of my faith is Jesus Christ, my Saviour. That is who I put my faith in. My faith rests in Him. As the hymn writer put it:

My faith has found a resting place-- Not in device nor creed.
I trust the ever living One-- His wounds for me shall plead.
I need no other argument. I need no other plea;
It is enough that Jesus died, And that He died for me.

DHK

 

[ONENESS]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> posted January 15, 2002 05:00 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by ONENESS:

Let me bring this to your attention. If you look at all the verses where it talks about people believing and people being baptized How do we know that they repented? We all agree that Repentance is A number one MUST for salvation. But yet the bible never shares with us in these scriptures that one person repented of their sins.
So does this mean that they did not repent? I will let you be the judge of that. But For my self I know that the Repented. But yet the bible does not say that.
What about you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ONENESS,
What is the difference in believing in these two verses?

Acts 16:31 "And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved,"
and,
James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also BELIEVE, and tremble."

Do both words here have exactly the same meaning?
DHK
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Um what does that have to do with what I posted

 

[DHK]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ONENESS:

Um what does that have to do with what I posted<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is what I suspected. You said, "But yet the bible never shares with us in these scriptures that one person repented of their sins."
When the Philippian jailor believed on the Lord Jesus, and was saved (without baptism, and without speaking in tongues), he believed and repented. Repentence is part of believing. Believing is an action word. Saving belief cannot come without repentance. Did the belief of the devils or demons include repentance? Obviously not. It was not saving faith. They believed in God, but not savingly. They acknowledged His existence, but would not submit to Him.
Thus, there is a reason why repentance may not be mentioned as much you would like to see it mentioned. To say it is never mentioned however is not true.

 

[Don]

Hey, Oneness. Just some thoughts for you to pray about.

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

New "glossa" (a tongue, or a language/dialect; we can pretty much assume that God did NOT mean that we would get a new tongue, but a new language or dialect) you seem to have down pretty good. Now, the question is: What about the rest? Casting out devils, taking up serpents, drinking poison, and healing the sick?

Second, there are NOT two kinds of tongues (tongues of interpretation, unknown tongues). They are clearly listed in 1 Corinthians 12 as two different gifts of the Holy Spirit (v. 10 -- to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues). Tongues, in the Greek, is ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS either the organ in our mouth or a language. It is never referred to as an interpretation, but as being interpreted.

Finally, I believe you were referencing 1 Corinthians 14:2 (instead of 1:2) when you said "When you are baptized with the holy GHost you speak in an unknown tongue. "You speak mysteries unto God that only he can understand(1 Cor 1:2) not gibberish as you guys like to put it" It is a language but it is a language only God can understand."

The passage you're referencing reads like this:

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

Now, please pray about what you read here next: What is the Great Commandment? "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."

While you ponder that statement, and what relevance it has to the conversation, think on this carefully: Is our job to edify ourselves, or to preach the Gospel to every creature?

Paul was not praising anyone for edifying themselves; rather, he was telling the people of Corinth to focus on the spiritual welfare and well-being of others.

Look at 1 Corinthians 10:33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

What was the point of Romans 15? 1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.

Our emphasis should be on others--PERIOD.

Christ came not for Himself, but for the world, that we might be saved.

1 Corinthians 14:16 ...When thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

1 Corinthians 14:21 is a direct reference to Isaiah 28:9-13; the very next verse builds upon this by stating without reservation that tongues are a sign for those that don't believe.

I've asked before: If the person who helped you pray at the altar was a believer, why did they need to hear you speak in tongues to "prove" your salvation, if tongues are a sign for unbelievers? Why do you need to continue to speak in tongues if they are a sign for unbelievers?

 

[ONENESS]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> When the Philippian jailor believed on the Lord Jesus, and was saved (without baptism, and without speaking in tongues), he believed and repented. Repentence is part of believing. Believing is an action word. Saving belief cannot come without repentance. Did the belief of the devils or demons include repentance? Obviously not. It was not saving faith. They believed in God, but not savingly. They acknowledged His existence, but would not submit to Him.
Thus, there is a reason why repentance may not be mentioned as much you would like to see it mentioned. To say it is never mentioned however is not true.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont want you to get the idea that I said that they did not repent, b/c repentance a MUST for salvation like I said earlier.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> When the Philippian jailor believed on the Lord Jesus, and was saved (without baptism, and without speaking in tongues), he believed and repented. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It never stated that he repented. But even though it does not state that he repented does not mean that he did not.


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Repentence is part of believing. Believing is an action word. Saving belief cannot come without repentance. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes you are so right when you say that "Beleiving is an action word" and that "Saveing belief cannot come without repentance". You see I have no trouble believing that. But I also understand that Saveing belief cannot come without being obidient with the rest of scripture also.

See you guys like to stop at Repentance. But does it stop there? No you must be born of the Water and the Spirit(John3:5) Peter said to repent and be baptized everyone of you in the Name of Jesus Christ for the Remission of your sins and ye shall receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost.

There is more to it than just easy beliveisim. Why do you guys like to leave off the rest of what Peter Preached? You cannot take off the "AND" In that verse.

And let me say this. If you do not have the HOly GHost YOU ARE NOT SAVED. Go to your "Romans Road" And give us a little bit more information so we can get to where we are going. Romans 8:9 says that But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. NOW IF ANY MAN HAVE NOT THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST, HE IS NONE OF HIS

But you say wait a minute Brian, You get the Holy Ghost as soon as you repent and Believe. But do we? Look at Acts 8. What took place here.

Christ was preached to them. And miracles were done and there was great Joy. (just b/c there is joy does not mean you have the Holy Ghost) But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the Name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Even Phillip believed and was baptized. (here is your saveing belief) So from your view we know that they had repented b/c repenting is a part of Believing. (thats what you said right?) But where is the Spirit? How can you be saved without the Spirit? You cant? But it was after the Fact that they repented and got baptized that the HOly Ghost came upon them. "now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John. Who, when they were come down, prayed for them that they might receive the HOly Ghost. For yet he was fallen upon none of them, only they were baptizd in the name of the Lord Jesus(you see they received the word of God, but still did not have the Holy Spirit). Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Saveing belief is more than repenting!!!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>They believed in God, but not savingly. They acknowledged His existence, but would not submit to Him. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can understand that

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Thus, there is a reason why repentance may not be mentioned as much you would like to see it mentioned. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey it does not matter to me if it is mentioned or not. I can accept the fact that they repented even though the bible does not clearly comeout and say that they repented

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> To say it is never mentioned however is not true.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did i ever say that? I think I said (without looking back at my previous statement) it is hardly ever mentioned.

Believing is an Action word. We are told to obey the Gospel and if we do not OBEY the Gospel we will be punished(2 thes 1:7-10)

What is the Gospel?

It is the Death the Burial and the Ressurection.

So how do we obey it?

1)We have to die.

How do we die?

We die at repentance killing the flesh.

2)We have to be buried.

How are we buried?

We are buried with him at baptisim.

3)We must be ressurected.

How are we ressurected?

The Baptisim of the holy ghost is our ressurection.

Now you may not believe that and I cant make you. So God bless and Good night. It is 1:10am

 

[ONENESS]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I've asked before: If the person who helped you pray at the altar was a believer, why did they need to hear you speak in tongues to "prove" your salvation, if tongues are a sign for unbelievers? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe they did not need to hear, It could have been the person on the other side of me that needed to hear it. Who knows?

A lady in our church gave her testomony one day and told us that way before she got in church and had the understanding of the holy Ghost was at home one day washing her dishes singing her praises to God. The next thing she knows she was speaking in a language that she did not understand. A long while later she goes to our church and it happens again. And she asked my pastor what it meant and He told her that she received the baptisim of the Holy Ghost. So she was amazed and told him that it had already happened to her once before but did not understand what had happened. So was there anyone beside her that did not believe? No!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Why do you need to continue to speak in tongues if they are a sign for unbelievers?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One reason is b/c God is still pouring out his spirit on all flesh.

Secondly: there are still alot of people out there that still do not believe.

Thirdly would be b/c Paul said that he wished that we all spoke in other tongues. And that he would pray with the Spirit and with the understanding also. And he would sing with the Spirit and he would sing with the understanding also.

Forthly b/c Paul said Forbid not to Speak with tongues.

And last but not least b/c The Promise is unto you and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. AND HE IS STILL CALLING

GOD BLESS

 

[Chemnitz]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> What is the Gospel?

It is the Death the Burial and the Ressurection.

So how do we obey it?

1)We have to die.

How do we die?

We die at repentance killing the flesh.

2)We have to be buried.

How are we buried?

We are buried with him at baptisim.

3)We must be ressurected.

How are we ressurected?

The Baptisim of the holy ghost is our ressurection.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Close, but close only counts in horseshoes and handgrenades.

Lets try this one
What is the Gospel?

God so love the world he gave his
only
son to die that whoever believes in him should not
perish but have
eternal
life

So how do we obey it?

by faith we recieve new life in Baptism

How do we die?

In baptism we die with Christ on the Cross.

2)We have to be buried.

In Baptism we are buried with Christ


3)We must be ressurected.

How are we ressurected?

In Christ's resurrection we too are resurrected.

How does this happen? The Holy Spirit works through the means of Grace that is Baptism. Note there is only need for one Baptism. Not once is it recorded that there were two seperate Baptisms (one of water and one of the Holy Spirit). Only once in the Bible did the Holy Spirit come directly and that was to the Apostles and they were a special case. All other times the Holy Spirit worked through the means of grace and by the Word.

[ January 16, 2002: Message edited by: Godmetal ]

[ January 16, 2002: Message edited by: Godmetal ]

 

[DHK]

1Cor.15::1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the GOSPEL which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are SAVED, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
---This is the gospel: the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. If I believe in this gospel, receive this message by faith, that Christ has died for my sins, and paid the penalty that I could not pay, I will be saved. He rose again conquering sin and death. He ever lives and invites all to call on His Name to be saved. Notice in these verses there is no mention of water, baptism, tongues, or works. The believers heard the gospel which Paul "declared unto them." They "received" it. By that message, that gospel, they were "saved." There's no water, baptism, or tongues here. He clarifies it even further: "unless you have believed in vain." Is your faith an empty faith? Have you not savingly believed? Maybe the object of your faith is tongues or an experience and not Christ? Then in verses 3 and 4 he once again elaborates on what the gospel, the good news is: the death, the burial, and the resurrection of Jesus Christ. All without baptism,tongues, or any kind of work. Jesus paid it all!
DHK

 

[ONENESS]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Notice in these verses there is no mention of water, baptism, tongues, or works. The believers heard the gospel which Paul "declared unto them." They "received" it. By that message, that gospel, they were "saved." There's no water, baptism, or tongues here. He clarifies it even further: "unless you have believed in vain." Is your faith an empty faith? Have you not savingly believed? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There was no reason for them to be baptized. They had already done so in the book of Acts.

But if you want to debate the point that it si not recorded that they did not get baptized or they did not speak in tongues, All i have to say is that they bible does not say here that they repented either.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Have you not savingly believed? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont think that was in the scripture, but I think i know where you are comeing from.


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Maybe the object of your faith is tongues or an experience and not Christ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now did i say that the object of my faith was baptisim or tongues? No i never said that. Christ better be the object of everyones faith or you have believed in vain. Please dont twist what I have said. I dont put my faith in Baptism, or tongues or repentance to save me. Jesus alone does the saveing. Its a gift from God, not by works lest anyone of us should boast.

We accept that gift by believing(the action word as you call it). Or i could just say being obedient to what the word of God says. Accepting by faith and putting your faith in Action.

I think where we are diffrent at is the fact that when you read the word believe the only thing that goes through your mind is believing and repenting. But for me you can say the word believe and I understand that it means Everything


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Then in verses 3 and 4 he once again elaborates on what the gospel, the good news is: the death, the burial, and the resurrection of Jesus Christ. All without baptism,tongues, or any kind of work. Jesus paid it all!
DHK <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And should I say all without repentance, baptism, tongues, or any kind of work. Why is it so hard to believe that repenting is just as much of a work as anyother thing that someone does. Do you repent? If you DO IT than it is a work.

 

[ONENESS]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey, Oneness. Just some thoughts for you to pray about.
Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

New "glossa" (a tongue, or a language/dialect; we can pretty much assume that God did NOT mean that we would get a new tongue, but a new language or dialect) you seem to have down pretty good. Now, the question is: What about the rest? Casting out devils, taking up serpents, drinking poison, and healing the sick?

Second, there are NOT two kinds of tongues (tongues of interpretation, unknown tongues). They are clearly listed in 1 Corinthians 12 as two different gifts of the Holy Spirit (v. 10 -- to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues). Tongues, in the Greek, is ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS either the organ in our mouth or a language. It is never referred to as an interpretation, but as being interpreted.

Finally, I believe you were referencing 1 Corinthians 14:2 (instead of 1:2) when you said "When you are baptized with the holy GHost you speak in an unknown tongue. "You speak mysteries unto God that only he can understand(1 Cor 1:2) not gibberish as you guys like to put it" It is a language but it is a language only God can understand."

The passage you're referencing reads like this:

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

Now, please pray about what you read here next: What is the Great Commandment? "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."

While you ponder that statement, and what relevance it has to the conversation, think on this carefully: Is our job to edify ourselves, or to preach the Gospel to every creature?

Paul was not praising anyone for edifying themselves; rather, he was telling the people of Corinth to focus on the spiritual welfare and well-being of others.

Look at 1 Corinthians 10:33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

What was the point of Romans 15? 1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.

Our emphasis should be on others--PERIOD.

Christ came not for Himself, but for the world, that we might be saved.

1 Corinthians 14:16 ...When thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

1 Corinthians 14:21 is a direct reference to Isaiah 28:9-13; the very next verse builds upon this by stating without reservation that tongues are a sign for those that don't believe.

I've asked before: If the person who helped you pray at the altar was a believer, why did they need to hear you speak in tongues to "prove" your salvation, if tongues are a sign for unbelievers? Why do you need to continue to speak in tongues if they are a sign for unbelievers?
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
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Ok this was aksed before as well. Let me say it like this. How many people do I know in the UPC that have been bit by a snake and died? None. How many times have I once heard of someone dieing from drinking poison in the UPC? NONE. How many times have I saw or heard of someone laying there hands on the sick and they recoved? Time after Time after TIme After time.


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Second, there are NOT two kinds of tongues (tongues of interpretation, unknown tongues). They are clearly listed in 1 Corinthians 12 as two different gifts of the Holy Spirit (v. 10 -- to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues). Tongues, in the Greek, is ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS either the organ in our mouth or a language. It is never referred to as an interpretation, but as being interpreted.
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So was Paul wrong when he said that He that speaketh in an unknown tongue speak not unto man but unto God.

There is the Gift of Tongues(diverse tongues)and there is an unknown tongue. The interpretation of tongues is not one who speaks but one who interprets. Only one Gift; Diverse Tongues. The other one everyone gets. When you receive the Holy GHost.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>While you ponder that statement, and what relevance it has to the conversation, think on this carefully: Is our job to edify ourselves, or to preach the Gospel to every creature?

Paul was not praising anyone for edifying themselves; rather, he was telling the people of Corinth to focus on the spiritual welfare and well-being of others.

Look at 1 Corinthians 10:33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

What was the point of Romans 15? 1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.

Our emphasis should be on others--PERIOD. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you ever prayed for yourself?

No need to take that any farther

Godbless

 

[Don]

I've prayed for myself many times, Oneness. I've also prayed for others, including you and MEE. Have you prayed for yourself?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Thirdly would be b/c Paul said that he wished that we all spoke in other tongues. And that he would pray with the Spirit and with the understanding also. And he would sing with the Spirit and he would sing with the understanding also.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Brother, I cannot tell you enough that you need to re-read this passage several times. You're injecting a belief into this instead of pulling one out. Paul said he wished that we all spoke in other tongues, but rather that ye prophesied; for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>How many people do I know in the UPC that have been bit by a snake and died? None. How many times have I once heard of someone dieing from drinking poison in the UPC? NONE.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You missed the point of the question. How many people in the UPC are taking up snakes? How many are drinking poison?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>There is the Gift of Tongues(diverse tongues)and there is an unknown tongue. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>There is the gift of languages, and there is an unknown language.

He that speaketh in an unknown language speaketh not unto men, but onto God; for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Further, no, Paul was not lying; plain and simply, you're misunderstanding. Paul says the following:

12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. 13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown language pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in an unknown language, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also.

It's not enough to pray in a language you don't know; Paul CLEARLY says that you must pray with the understanding, too.

Look at verses 16 and 17 again, Oneness. Then look at verses 18 and 19 again: I thank my God, I speak with languages more than ye all: yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown language.

Oneness, God gave the gift of tongues in very specific places in the book of Acts: ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS in front of an audience, that the unbelievers might be convicted of Him and be saved.

You can reject this all you want--but you KNOW I'm telling you the truth.

 

[ONENESS]

Don, Dhk, do any of you guys have yahoo messagener? If you do let me know and we can talk while we are online and dont have to wait to discuss

 

[ONENESS]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>It's not enough to pray in a language you don't know; Paul CLEARLY says that you must pray with the understanding, too. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know that it is not enough to pray in an unknown tongue. I am not trying to say that speaking in tongues is above all. I understand that one should desire to prophesy than to speak in an unknown tongue

All I am trying to point out is that it is still for us. Not that it is the only thing that you should do. I am just wanting you to see that it is not wrong.