Tongues

Hmmm...internet's still on...well, packers are pulling up outside, so this is absolutely the last one!

Singer, use your head, man (or woman).

Would you absolutely agree that the Mormon religion is of God?

If not, then you understand my point. Don't play silly with us.

God Bless y'all!

 

SORRY MEE!!

I forgot about this thread!

I am not ignoring you! It is late here though, I will post tomorrow.

It is REALLY interesting what I did.

God Bless </font>[/QUOTE]STILL WAITING!

MEE

 

Would you mind sharing what type of 'test' that you put on it? Also, how did you come to the conclusion that it was demonic? </font>[/QUOTE]Just in case someone doesn't remember what 3AngelsMom was talking about, in her post, on page four.

MEE

 

That is where the Bible comes in! Guess what, God gave His Word for a reason. We need to know WHO Jesus is, not just in an empty name.

As for your quote about Don, I have no idea what you meant by that, but I believe he mentioned that he was moving. So much for your theories.

We can't discuss the Word if you don't listen to what it says. Believe what you want, but just because you believe it, doesn't make it truth. Only what the Word teaches is truth. Only the Jesus described in the Bible is the one that saves. The mormons do not believe in that Jesus and it sounds as if you believe in some myth as well. You certainly can not prove your points according to the scriptures and according to you, you don't have to.

Fruitless discussion...count me gone too.

~Lorelei

 

You have stated your problem quite well. You have faith in your experience. You see, all faith has an object. The object of my faith is Jesus Christ. The object of my faith is NEVER an experience. Epereinces are based on emotions, feelings, things that are liable to change with each passing day. Whereas Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. He never changes. If I based my life on my feelings there would be a good chance that I wouldn't get up in the morning and go to work, because I "wouldn't feel like it." My faith is constant. It is focused on my redeemer, Jesus Christ, the One who died for me. The experience, the emotions that He gives me are the fruit of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, etc. Notice that tongues is not mentioned among the fruit of the Spirit.

Yes, many a Charismatic leader nowadays teaches you must have enough faith in your faith. They treat faith as a commodity. You are not healed if you do not have enough faith. Pray for more faith. Have faith that your faith is strong enough to give $10,000.00 to this preacher.

Is Satan that tricky. He is the god of this world, appearing as an angel of light. He deceived Eve; could he not deceive you also?
"I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have commited unto him against that day."

I know whom I have believed; not experienced. I know Christ my Saviour because of the promises of the Word of God. Most of my children were saved around the age of seven. Over and over again they heard that song:

"Jesus loves me, this I know; for the Bible tells me so."
They have an assurance of their salvation because the Bible tells them so. Not because of any experience that they have had. Experiences may come from Satan. Do you have any valid way of testing that your experience did not come from Satan. Or any valid way of testing that your experience was simply a fleshly, carnal experience that you experienced that made you feel good at that time in your life. But it wasn't any more from God, than a rollercoaster ride.
DHK

 

Isaiah 28:11-12
11) For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12) To whom he said, This the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

** Just like some won't listen even today!

Acts 2:19) Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

** Now we know that the "REFRESHING" comes from the Lord. Not Satan!

Acts 2:37-39
37) Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, WHAT SHALL WE DO?
38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

** Unless I'm mistaken, the Lord our God is still calling and the baptism of the Holy Ghost is still for us all.

If one has changed anything, in any way, other than what Peter told the NT Church, on the Day of Pentecost, he/she has taken away from the Word of God!

MEE

 

Wow. This is a long thread.

 

Yes, a very long thread.

I wonder who will stop first?

After having read it for these past days, it is obvious to THIS observer, that noone has changed in their opinion yet.

The pros have not changed the cons one single bit, and vice versa!

There are a few topics in the Bible which on every christian board come up for discussion, time after time. Year after year.

Look through the thousands of articles and essays written on the net ... these same topics have essay after essay written on them.

Seems to me God has left these things mysterious, for some unknown reason.

Now, some of you tongues disbelievers will say right now .... "well, there is no mystery whatsoever, tongues are wrong! It is very obvious!"

Then, you will get those who swear they had this experience from God . who also say, "Tongues a mystery? What do you mean? They are totally scriptural for today .. it is so so obvious!"


And the same, for the divorce and remarriage issue; the Trinity issue; the Once Saved Always Saved issue .... and many more.

I would imagine, if Don is away moving house for a month, and comes back ..... this topic could still be continuing (perhaps page 500!) and nobody has budged in their opinions.


DHK ..... PLEASE may I ask something?
(Just from you .. you seem to be the most knowledgable on this topic.)

Singers experience ..... in your personal opinion, (knowing you do not agree with it at all!) what happened to singer?
He was sober, he was pleading to God, he was praying, he was reading the word, he desired God to speak with him ..... so what happened???

 

Hi all, great discussion and on the 16th page, wow. Well I wanted to go off topic as I think DHK and Lorelie have said what needs to be said.

Carol posted these verses:
Acts 2:37-39
37) Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, WHAT SHALL WE DO?
38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

I posted on another thread an interesting interpretation of these verses by a man name Ironside. He said that there was more to this speach from Peter then a "personal" salvation message. He said it is a cry from Peter to the nation of Isreal to "repent". You see they just put the Savior to death, killed the very Son of God. Isreal had become an enemy of God and they knew from scripture that the enemies of God become a "footstool". Peter then says to his people, fellow Jews, "What should WE do?" And then he says to "Repent", i.e. repent of that Sin of killing the Messiah, and be baptized, thus taking away the the position of "enemy of God" (footstool) because you can't be saved from that position. After a national type of confession, individuals were then not God's enemies and open to personal repentance and acceptance of God's provision through His Son. I didn't explain that as well as Ironside but it is a pretty cool way of looking at it don't you think?

As for tongues and spiritual gifts, no one has shown from scripture that the gifts were not IN the person and they chose when to use them, not God. ALL spiritual gifts are the same in the way they are used, there is no scripture to prove otherwise. Tongues then could be spoken to anyone of a different language at any time. One other note, is that Paul said that if no interpreter is present to keep silient. Think about that, for you to know if there was an interpreter present you would know who had that gift and thet the person could use it when THEY wanted. The tongues speaker used His gift to share in a different language and the interpreter, then interpreted the message for ALL to hear and be edified. The point is both chose when to use their gift they did not wait on God to "power" their gift.

In Christ,
Brian

 

Here we go again. My friends it is absurd for you to continue saying the perfect is the Bible. The Bible is not perfect. Study and you will learn. There are many questions whether certain scriptures were in the original manuscripts or not. I have heard this debated for years now.
This shows anyone that the Bibles we have are not perfect. When you have human elements involved there are going to be problems like this arise. Does this delute the inerrancy of the word. No. Gods word is Gods word. What man does is mans problems.

What is charity? It is Christian love for one another. Is charity a gift? No. Absolutely not. It is an human emotion.

Paul said he wished all had the gift of speaking in tongues and he said Forbid not speaking in tongues. This is the Apostle Paul's writings but I hear DHK and Don and Lorelei usurping Paul's authority. I don't believe either of the three of you was called by God to be an apostle. Why do you continue to try to take on this role?

Tongues have not ceased and will not cease until the end of time. This is the perfect that Paul was speaking of. The perfect age when Jesus will be here on Earth. All spiritual signs and miracles will end then because he will be with us. We will not need supernatural gifts at that time.

You know the reason these debates continue is that cessasionist refuse to understand that there are more than one kind of tongues. Even though the bible clearly indicates this they refuse to listen and learn. Jesus himself said one of the signs that would follow believers would be speaking in tongues but of course again DHK, DON and Lorelei supersedes Jesus Christ himself.

 

**Brian, I have been reading most all of the posts and have tried to stay out of the discussions, as much as possible.

I suggest that you go back and read the link below and maybe you will understand "speaking in tongues." People don't carry around the gifts of God and use them at their own will. If God chooses, then and only then are they used. The gifts belong to Him and are used in His church.
God uses them through His church when it is needed.

I don't expect you to understand that unless you have been around churches that let the operation of the gifts be used, by God.

http://www.afom.net/tracts/tongues_devilishordivine.htm

BTW Brian, I still think that you are a wonderful person, as far as this 'puter' let's me see.

MEE

 

Hi Carol, I think you are nice as well and I know I can "talk" to you and it will stay friendly, whether we agree or not. the reason I say that WE decide when to use our gift is a practical one. I believe that the miraculous gifts are gone but that the rest are active. There is no reason to think that any gifts are used differently by us then other gifts, then or now. Pastors do not get up to speak and say that they can't because their gift is not activated, heck most times pastors won't stop speaking. It is the same for teaching or service gifts. Once we are saved and the Holy Spirit gives the "gifts" then we use them to edify the "body of Christ". They are in us and WE use them as we please. We are a snowflake of gifts, sculpted by God, to do good works. He gives the gifts and we go into the world using them. That is the way we see the "gifts" work in our churches. We don't have to wait on God for something He has already given us (read that twice as I am proud of that line ). Hope that explains it, I will try to read the thread you posted later.

Hrhema, I don't contend the "perfect" is the Bible. I say tongues are gone because the Bible says that they will fizzle out (end on their own - via the Greek verb used in "will cease") and that they were a sign that pointed to God's judgement and once that judgement was executed the sign was not needed. Nothing to do with the "perfect" coming at all. Please think about that as that idea probably got lost many pages ago in this thread. God's blessings to you!

In Love and Truth,
Brian

[ February 26, 2003, 09:52 AM: Message edited by: Briguy ]

 

Glorious,
Here is what I believe could have happened.
I first recognize that God never goes against His Word, and since I firmly believe that the gifts of the Spirit ceased near the end of the first century with the completion of God’s Word, I don’t believe the modern tongues is of God. Furthermore, tongues was a sign for the unbelieving Jew, another reason why tongues has ceased.
People today speak in tongues for various reasons: one is demonic possession, but I don’t believe that is the case with Singer.
When a person allows their subconscious mind to overrule their conscious mind such things as speaking in tongues may take place; the same goes true in we allow our intellect to give way to our emotions. This is a very common phenomena among tongues-speakers, and may have happened with Singer. Even though he may have been praying, and reading the Word, desiring God to speak to him, he may have unwittingly surrendered his subconscious mind to his conscious mind because inwardly he very much desired that gift of tongues even though he may not have outwardly expressed it. That is why Jesus said:

Mark 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

--From the innermost being, our heart, comes the things that we don’t want to admit are wrong.
The Bible teaches emphatically that the believer is never to yield control of his mind to an outside power, and yet that is precisely what speaking in tongues is. When a person speaks in tongues he does not know what he is saying, he does not know for sure what the source is, (he only hopes it is the Holy Spirit—not even sure about that), he is controlled by something beyond himself. This is totally unbiblical. We are to be in complete control of our minds. The battle is in the mind and Satan seeks control of yours.

Rom.7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
--With the mind I serve the law of God; with the flesh the law of sin. Yield your mind to God.

2Cor.10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
--For a person speaking in tongues this is an impossible task to do. Do you bring every thought to the obedience of Christ? How can you when you don’t know what every though is? Cast down imaginations! Can you do that when speaking in tongues? You don’t know what your imaginations are when speaking in tongues.

Phil.4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
--Think on these things. Actively think! Don’t allow your mind to be passive. Don’t allow your mind to speak in tongues, to be controlled by an outside influence. Be thinking all the time, and be thinking about certain specific things: true, hones, just, pure, lovely, good report. How can you be sure that what you speak in tongues measure up to these standards. Some people blaspheme God when speaking in tongues.

It has been documented that both Mormons and Hindus speak in tongues. Are they saved also? Is that not enough to demonstrate that the experience is not of God?
Again I believe that the experience is allowing your mind to be controlled by another influence, whether your subconscious mind, your emotions, another spirit, etc. In some large meetings (the Benny Hinn type) the audience is induced into a self-hypnotic state by use of the music, the lighting and the voice—the effect of the entire environment produces a psychological effect on the people that induces a hypnotic state that causes tongues.
This is a modern phenomena that began at the beginning of the twentieth century. It was unknown previously.
DHK

 

Perhaps not, but the baptism of the Holy Spirit took place at the day of Pentecost. It was sporadic after that. Nowhere are we commanded to seek for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. It is unscriptural to do so. You are trying to exract doctrine from a book of history. What does Paul teach on the baptism of the Holy Spirit?

Where does it say that that was the result of the baptism of the Holy Spirit? Are you reading into Scripture your own presuppositions? It wasn't emotions that caused those friends to do anything. Does the Scripture say that? Again you are reading into the Scripture. Jesus specifically says, It was their faith. Faith is NOT an emotion.

Absolutely not! Again you read into Scripture something that is not there. They wanted to see Jesus that Jesus might heal him. They had confidence (faith) that Jesus could heal because they had seen the miracles and heard the words that Jesus had done and said. They wer confident that Jesus could heal Him. They brought him to Jesus because they had faith in Jesus. The object of their faith was Jesus. The Scripture is clear on that.
DHK

 

Hello All,

I was asked to address this:

Jude 1:20
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Now, we all know that there is no punctuation in the original manuscripts, but we should notice that there is a comma here, which means it is not a complete thought. People often use this verse, on it's own to support speaking in tongues as a prayer language.

I used to use it!

Jude is one of those letters that speak specifically to someone. I have heard it said that it is the Pastors book. It is for those who have the call to preach.

Some people would say that it is impossible for a woman to have this calling. I disagree. I would say that a woman should not be the Pastor of a church, but that doesn't mean she can't preach! Preaching is giving the good news of the Gospel to people. It is sharing the truth from Scripture, it is not putting your authority on someone, like a Pastor does. The Pastor of a church is like a Shepherd. He is the leader. A Preacher is someone who has been given the ability by the Holy Spirit to expound from the Scriptures meaning and message.

NOW that I got that out. I have KNOWN for some time now what spiritual gifts I have.

I have the gift of discernment of spirits. AND yes that means I can see demons. I don't 'see' them, they aren't beastly apparitions, but I can 'see' them through the Spirit, when they are on people.

I have known that I had this gift from just about as soon as I received the Holy Spirit.

This wasn't at a church. I wasn't speaking in tongues.

I was in my room praying. I submitted myself to God. ALL of myself.

I FELT (not in my body) but in my spirit, a refreshing. I felt like God had cleansed me. From that moment forward I have had this gift.

I was involved in wicca before I came to Christ. I have SEEN (with the eyes of my flesh) demons. I have SEEN people do stuff that they aren't supposed to be able to do. DEMONS are REAL.

God gave me this gift so that I could see what is of God and what isn't. I do not take it lightly. It is a gift that I must share. If not, then it would be only for my 'edification'.

NO gift of the Holy Spirit is for your OWN edification. Every gift that is given is to edify the WHOLE church. The Body.

I also have the gift of prophecy. NOW before any one called me a heretic and trys to burn me at the stake, let me tell you what I mean by that.

Most people think of a prophet and they think 'someone who tells the future'. That isn't always the case. In my case my prophetic gift is the ability to read from the Bible and have it open up to the benifit of others. The key there is OTHERS.

Here is an example. I was reading from Hebrews to my husband. (his eyes hurt him) I suddenly could HEAR in my head the voice of a man. I related every thing I was hearing, as if it were my own voice. I could HEAR the author. I could feel his tone, and emotions when he wrote it. When I got through reading it, my husband was speechless and just sat there for a minute or two.

He said that he had NEVER heard that in those words before. He had never heard the message of that book until just then. Now what did HE get out of my reading? FAITH, HOPE, PEACE, and more than anything else a new love for the Word of God.

There is nothing for me in it. It doesn't make me feel all warm and gooey. I don't knock at the knees. But it happens to me allot. It happens when I talk to people. The Holy Spirit prompts me to talk to someone, and after I do, they are in tears, and at peace. Like God just spoke to them. I don't know how else to explain it.

It is a gift! I prayed for that one! The discernment was God's way of showing me how demonic my surroundings were. (btw I can also see the good spirits! I love that. That is edifying to me, but I always try to share it, so that it isn't just me getting a blessing from their presence)

NOW, let me take you back to when I spoke in 'tongues'. I told you all that I would relate to you the 'test' that I put on it.

Well here goes nothin'

I noted before that the gift of discernment came to me in full force at the moment I was converted. I had "it" before. When I was a little girl I was molested and went through about a decade of depression as a child. My parents feared that I would commit suicide. I could see people's auras. I could see demons. I could see if people were lying. If someone came to me that had a Spirit of God, it was OFFENSIVE to me. I was possessed. I had a counterfeit gift. I had discernment from demons. The DEMONS gave me discernment of spirits.

If there is anyone out there who thinks that it is impossible for the devil to immitate God, you are WRONG. He comes as an ANGEL of light. That means MESSENGER. He comes like God's Angels would, so that he can deceive. He doesn't come in a red suit with a pitchfork, offering you an apple. He is subtle, and sneaky, and tricky, and a LIAR. He is a very good liar. So are the people who live for him. But those who are NOT living for him can and ARE effected by him.

The Bible says "be not deceived, God is NOT mocked". When someone 'appears' to be using a gift of God, but are really only edifying themselves, it is 'mocking'. Like a little kid. You know repeating everything you say, mocking. "for whatever a man sows, that he will reap, if you sow to the flesh, you will, of the flesh, reap corruption". If we do something to gratify our flesh, or to 'get a feeling', HOW is that glorifying to God, or edifying to the Body? If we are only doing something because it 'feels good', then it is NOT of God, because it is NOT edifying to the Body. "but if you sow to the Spirit, you will, OF THE SPIRIT, reap, LIFE everlasting." The use of God's gifts through the Holy Spirit, are to be used by the receiver to edify the body, so that those who receive the effect of the gift will be led to Christ, drawn to the Holy Spirit, and drawn to His Word.

The purpose of tongues in the NT Church was for WITNESSING. There was no other purpose for it.

NOW, some will immediatly say, 'what about Jude 20'.

Well let me finish my story and I'll tell you.

When I was a sophmore in high school my parents became very worried about my behavior. I was very violent, and totally rebellious. I refused to go to school, refused to go to church, refused to eat, refused to obey. I couldn't sleep and I was constantly bothered by demons.

I have been diagnosed with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. I was 9 when they first discovered this. I still live with it today, but through the power of the Holy Spirit (the fruit of self control) I am able to live without drugs.

My parents decided that they needed to get me away from the environment I was in before I self destructed. They put me in a psychiatric rehab center for a month. I got worse. The psychiatrist advised them about a girls home that was in Texas. They sent me to a place called 'Holy Highway'. It is a pentecostal, charismatic, group that uses hard labor for discipline and teaches the traditional 'you must speak in tongues to be saved' theology of the charismatic movement.

I spent 6 months there 'playing church'. We went 3 times a week to a local Assembly that was fairly conservative, and had some sort of order. But occasionally we would go to visit other churches, like if they were having revival meetings and what not.

One night we went to a church that was fairly large and had about 200 people in it. It was total chaos. There was a band playing and women were dancing and 'uttering' and everyone was walking around the sanctuary in a conga line like procession. When we first arrived I immediatly saw the presence there. It was NOT God. I was NOT uncomfortable. The chaos that was there was from the demons that were controlling the people there. There was no order to the service. The pastor was speaking in tongues from the pulpit, people all around us were screaming and singing in tongues. It was intense. There was NO order. When we left there, I felt like I had just been to a wiccan seance. There were demons ALL OVER the other girls. They were mocking and laughing, and giggling, and barking out this mock language that they learned by hearing the others there.
They all had a FALSE sense of the presence of God. Many of them claimed conversion. Many of those same girls who were claiming conversion that night were caught running away 3 nights later. 7 of them. They planned it THAT night while we were at that church.

The next time we went to visit a church it was a very small group. There were only about 12 pews in the whole place. It was very cold there. It was July. There were so many demons there that the roof seemed to be lifting off the place. The walls were melting. It was so vile. There was a band, and the people were dancing and screaming, and singing, and jumping and running. There was a very large woman there that started talking to me. She had a spirit of perversion on her. I know that spirit. I have seen it many times before. I could see it on my older brother. I could see it on the man that molested me. I could see it on a neighbor we had in Louisiana who turned out to have molested 18 of his male relatives.

This woman wouldn't leave me alone. She kept telling me that I needed to speak in tongues. She said I needed to get Jeezzuus. So she pulled me up and made me stand in front of her and she was holding my arms and shaking me and she said "say Hallelujah" so I did, and she persisted that I keep saying it over and over and over and over again. After about 3 minutes of this I still was not speaking in anything other than Hebrew. I was saying Hallelujah! So she took the butt of her hand and smacked me in the forehead. It knocked me out.

When I came to, I was laying on the floor and there were about 10 people around me touching me and screaming and speaking in tongues. I tried to get up, but they wouldn't let me.

I left there feeling a bit disoriented and violated. I was told that I had been 'slain' in the spirit. All the while I continued to get in trouble every day and was ALWAYS on hard labor.

I eventually started speaking 'in tongues' at the regular church that we went to on Sundays because of the intense pressure of the people there. I had not one drop of the Holy Spirit in me. I was doing just what they were doing. Mocking.

I was eventually kicked out of that home and sent to an IFB home called New Bethany. It is in LA. It was there, that I had my first taste of real repentance. I sought God with all of my heart there. The demons left. The Holy Spirit filled me with peace and hope. Faith guided me.

I stayed in the IFB Church system until after attending HA College. I saw THERE that this movement was not for me. There are some good people in the IFB Church, but there was a lot of error, and I could see it. The spirit of error was all over every preacher that I saw speak. It was very disheartening to me, because I had really felt that this was where God wanted me to be. He led me from there for better things though.
I could now see so much more from the gift that the Holy Spirit had given me. I could see the good in people and I could see the demons for what they were. The enemy.

I started going to Calvary Chapel in CA after leaving HAC. With my parents. I got very involved in the Young Adults ministries and even worked at the CCCC (calvary chapel conference center) in Murrieta Hot Springs. I loved the people there. Something was still lacking though. There was an overwhelming spirit of deceit there, and I couldn't seem to put my finger on it.

I prayed that God would show me what to do.

About that time I met a man who wanted to date me. He was a YOUTH PASTOR. He and I went on our first date. It was to a Christmas party at one of the Young Adults ministry people's house. Everyone was there. He was handsome, and sensitive and very polite, and MAN did he know the Bible. I was impressed!

At the end of the date he kissed my hand. I was blown away. We went on 2 or 3 more dates, to church and to church functions.

One Sunday after church (he didn't go to the same church as my parents) he asked me if we could stop by his house before he took me to my parents house so that he could change his clothes (get out of the suit and all). I saw no problem with this, so we went. He had 2 roomates. They were renting a house together. When we first got there, the roomates were there. So I saw no problem with taking the 'tour'. By the time we got upstairs I noticed that the roomates were leaving. So I told him that I was going to go wait in the car while he changed. He wanted me to see his room. So I walked the length of the hall way to his room and walked in and he closed the door behind me. I felt REALLY uncomfortable. He asked me if I wanted to watch a movie. So, as strange as I thought this was, I consented because I really liked him, and I didn't want to put him off. So as we were watching the movie, he started trying to get touchy feely. I was a virgin. As bad as I was in high school, I was too scared to have sex.
I was STILL too scared, and also at 20 wanted to wait until I got married. Without going into all the details. He pinned me down and raped me.

I left the church all together.

I told the pastor what he did, so that he couldn't pastor teenage girls anymore. Then left. I joined the Air Force and got out of California. This was when I got into Wicca again. You see, some would say that if you could do that, you weren't really saved to begin with. I'm not buying it! YOU CAN LEAVE. You cannot tell me that I wasn't saved during the time that I was at New Bethany and after. I know for a fact that I deliberatly and intentionally LEFT my Savior and blamed him for this mans actions. I couldn't get my brain around it. That God would let this happen to me. After all I had been through, and I was finally on the right path......or was I?

I met a girl in the wicca group that told me a story.

She and her mother have been in wicca for as long as she can remember. Her mother practices and her grandma too. They have been at it a while. She told me that when she was in high school she had a friend that begged her to come to church with her. So she did. She said that it was charismatic. She also said that during the 'training' her mother had given her she had become well aquanted with the different languages that the demons spoke to her and her mother. She told me that at this church service there were people dancing and laughing and running and barking out this obscene language that SHE hadn't ever heard before. So she told her mother that she HAD to come and see these people and see what they were saying. Her mother consented to go, but told her that she wanted to sit in back so as to remain unnoticed.

They both went the following wednesday night (which was worse than sunday morning). She told me that when her mother got there, at first she made this very strange face. Like she sensed something. She said that she too sensed it, but didn't know what it was. After the service started and the band played the people went berzerk. She said that they were all over the place. (This was in an Assemblies of God church btw).

She said that in the middle of the service her mother just got up and left.

When she got to her, she asked her if she knew what that was. This is what she said. She said it was a language that she had only heard maybe 2 or 3 times. She said it was a spirit of sensuality. It was a demon of lust. She said that this demon was controlling the mouths of these people through the lust of their own bodies. She said that she couldn't stay in there any longer. She said something greater was keeping them there. She said there was a demon there that was strong, and there was a contention with her demons and those there, and they wouldn't let her leave. She finally overpowered them and got up. She said they were arguing about the people. Her demons wanted to take those people. The demons that were there didn't want to give them up. The demons that this woman had were just familiar spirits. This demon of sensuality was very powerful. He was trying to pull her into this deception too.

Now. Back to me. I decided to go to the Christian church on base. I went and even started playing the piano for the services. 3 times on Sunday. I met my ex husband there! He had a SENSUAL SPIRIT. I met, this spirit that she encountered. I lived under it for 2 and a half years. It came with me when I left him. (for adultery).

I went back to California in 1999 after leaving him. This spirit followed me. I knew he was there, and he wasn't alone. I had no desire to go to church again. I didn't want anything to do with God at that point. I was very angry. I lashed out at men in general. I used them, while they used me. This sensual spirit attracted men terribly.

I decided after 3 months that I was going to have to go to my parents in AR for help. I had been running from God, and I fell flat on my face.

I had $7 to my name when I called my dad. He wired me $200 to buy a bus ticket. I used that seven dollars to buy a bible. I read it that night and gave my heart to Jesus. I submitted to Him. I told Him that I would go wherever He wanted me to go and do whatever He wanted me to do. MAKE your will MY desire, I said.

I tried the spirits to see if they were of God or not. Those spirits that were in those churches were not of God.

I still see demons all the time. There are some right outside of my apartment. There were some when I took my kids to school. I see them on the highway, I see them at the grocery store. I see them outside the doors of my church.

I have only seen them inside on one person. This guy that is a Sheperds Rod. (they want to kill us).

His come in with him. The demons who follow the faithful around do not come in with them. I don't know why. There was one on a baby last week. It was making it cry. While our pastor was talking about keeping yourself unspotted from the world.

You see, I have seen. I have taste. I have touched and know that this spirit that YOU cannot test because you cannot ask it to say that Jesus is come in the flesh (the test), is not of God.

God is the one who gave us the test.

He would not send a spirit that could not be tested.

Jude 20But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

here is what is missing to complete this statement:

Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

(read it together)

NOW, would you like to know who he is comparing them to?

Jud 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
Jud 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

The first time I read this book it made me think of those people that I just told you about.

SO God is telling us to LOOK OUT! HOW???

Building up your HOLY FAITH.....by reading the Bible....KNOW the Truth.
Praying......to God, by Jesus Christ, through the Holy Spirit.
Keep yourself in the LOVE.....If I speak with men and angels and have not love....
LOOKING for HIS mercy......His coming with eternal life!

So read your Bible, pray every day and you'll "grow, grow, grow".

Praying through the Holy Spirit is HOW your prayers get heard. The Holy Spirit is the presence of God here on earth. He is the ultimate translator, and even translates the thoughts and intents of your heart that CANNOT be uttered.

Notice that. THAT CANNOT be uttered. CANNOT.

He translates every language known to man to the Father through the Son.

THAT is what tongues is. It is the Holy Spirit TRANSLATING for you, so that you can speak to the edification of others. SO that OTHERS might know him. This gift should be very rare in this day in age because we now have machines that can translate, and we have multilingual people all over the world. I still, have heard of instances of people speaking in authentic tongues for the cause of the gospel.

In conclusion: If it feels good do it. That is the mentality of some. They are sensual, and have not the Spirit.

If you had the patience to read all of this, I hope you got a blessing out of it.

God Bless