tongues

[atestring]

Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MEE:

DHK, this was not to be a one time happening! It was the begining of the NT Church. I've quoted it time after time, Acts 2:39) For the promise is unto you, and to your children and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

He's still calling and will continue to call until His return, for His bride.

MEE

No the promise is not unto YOU.
The promise is unto the children of the one's that crucified the Saviour, the Jews. If you are not a Jew, the promise is not unto you. You are not rightly dividing the word of truth. You are taking a promise of the Word of God, directly given to the Jews and trying to apply it to yourself. God never commanded you to take off your shoes and approach the burning bush either.
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]Does this mean that All Jewish Chistians speak in tongues?
Is there a difference in the attonement for the Jews and the gentiles?
When Paul Said there is neither Jew nor Greek did he mean except in the area of Speaking in tongues?
Did he mean that only the Jew would have an outpouring of the Holy Spirit?
This would be a new doctrine to me but I will listen to anything that you have to say.

 

[Briguy]

Atestring and Carol, What DHK said and I believe I touched on pages ago is that Acts 2:38 and the verses around it have a specific audience. Acts 2:38 is a direct respone to the question asked of Peter, "What shall we do?" The "we" is not you and I, it is the nation of Isreal, Jewish folks only. They had just crucified the Messiah, the very Son of God and in doing so made themselves as a people the enemy of God. The Jews knew that God makes His enemys a foot stool. That is not a good place to be and so the Jews cry out to Peter, What should we do??? and he says for them to repent and to prove you did repent go in the water and be baptized. This was a Baptism of repentance like John the Baptist proclaimed it established a clear path to God and opened the door of salvation to the Jews. Think of the repentence of Ninevah, for a another way tothink of it. They repented and put on sack cloth and ashes to show they were serious. The Jews got in the water to show their intent. Anyway, the "children" the promise is to is not me and you unless we are of jewish descent. Sorry to carry that on so long but we can't be selfish and think everything in scripture applies directly to us.

In Christ,
Brian

 

[atestring]

Briguy ,
Acts 11:15-16 says that thes (Gentiles) recieved the Holy Spirit just as we (the Jews) did.

 

[Briguy]

Atestring, The gospel is for all. The Holy Spirit comes to those who trust Christ to forgive them. The Gentiles had not killed the Messiah and did not have to make a national act of repentance like the Jews did. Once the Jews repented they were free to receive salvation just as the Gentiles already were free to receive it. Hope that answered the question.

In Christ,
Brian

 

[atestring]

Originally posted by Briguy:
Atestring, The gospel is for all. The Holy Spirit comes to those who trust Christ to forgive them. The Gentiles had not killed the Messiah and did not have to make a national act of repentance like the Jews did. Once the Jews repented they were free to receive salvation just as the Gentiles already were free to receive it. Hope that answered the question.

In Christ,
Brian

Briguy, I disagree with you simply because not only were Jews involved in the crucifixion of Jesus but Roman Soldiers were involved also. Read the story of the Crufixion and the Romans keep showing up. Who pierced his side?
Who Gambled for his garments?
Who Arrested Jesus?
Was the soldier that had his ear cut off by Peter a Jew or a Roman?
I think that making "the promise of the Father" For "Jew's Only" is stretching an opinion a little far.

 

[Briguy]

Walguy, Thanks for that clarification, you made a great point. The Jews that were involved at the crucifixion "scene" took the blame. That is scriptual. Atestring, is it starting to make some sense now? The Bible is such a wonderfully tied together book it just blows me away sometimes. I guess I should expect nothing less from God's own Word. Atestring, did we finally make our point clear on the 70AD thing? I hope that is clear. Listen, if you would pray about tongues and God reveals to you that they really did end don't feel that because you spoke in tongues you were some big "mess up" or something. Remember your heart was in the right place. If you never can see what we have said and I believed proved, I trust you will fix your eyes and energy on whats really important, loving God and loving others. Tongues never have compared to those two things and were never intended to.

In Love and Truth,
Brian

 

[Briguy]

Yikes!!!!, I was trying to post and it wasn't working -- well I guess it did work the first time but my browser was freezing. Please disregard the extra posts I was not trying to make my point THAT much.

-Brian

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by Briguy:
Yikes!!!!, I was trying to post and it wasn't working -- well I guess it did work the first time but my browser was freezing. Please disregard the extra posts I was not trying to make my point THAT much.

-Brian

Gee Brian, I thought the same thing this morning when I read your post. LOL!

MEE

 

[Briguy]

Hey, quick reply, I like this. Carol, have you had problems on the board lately. It was running very weird for me yesterday. Anyway, take care and feel free to chime in to the last couple points made, by me, Walguy or DHK.

In Christ,
Brian

 

[Singer]

Brian,
Three or four posts up, you said this:

"I trust you will fix your eyes and energy on whats really important, loving God and loving others. Tongues never have compared to those two things and were never intended to."

I'm learning to stay out of tongues topics, salvation topics, Mary topics, etc. etc. to the point someday I won't even be here, but let me chime in here

Your comment "tongues never have compared to [loving God and loving others]." Reminds me that those two which are the new covenant also don't compare to church attendance. Maybe I'm trying to drum up some support for my own inability to attend church, but the only thing that seems to support that fact is the verse about "forsake not the gathering of yourselves together". At least the tongues issue has for it's support a statement saying "forbid not to speak with tongues". Church attendance may not be any more important than speaking in tongues in that light.

Make sense?

Singer

 

[atestring]

Originally posted by Briguy:
Walguy, Thanks for that clarification, you made a great point. The Jews that were involved at the crucifixion "scene" took the blame. That is scriptual. Atestring, is it starting to make some sense now? The Bible is such a wonderfully tied together book it just blows me away sometimes. I guess I should expect nothing less from God's own Word. Atestring, did we finally make our point clear on the 70AD thing? I hope that is clear. Listen, if you would pray about tongues and God reveals to you that they really did end don't feel that because you spoke in tongues you were some big "mess up" or something. Remember your heart was in the right place. If you never can see what we have said and I believed proved, I trust you will fix your eyes and energy on whats really important, loving God and loving others. Tongues never have compared to those two things and were never intended to.

In Love and Truth,
Brian

The answer is No. You have not convinced me.

 

[Singer]

Brian,
My tongues speaking came after a time when I pleaded with God to settle the issue for me once and for all. You read my input on it last year and it followed an evangelical bible study, prayer that lasted late into the early morning hours, raised hands, quoting praises to God, bible study and trust that God would answer. It was accompanied by a physical and emotional response which I will never give credit to satan for. I encourage others to do the same and to cherish the incident. It did not extend beyond that one time 27 years ago, but the light of God's presence is still shining through that precious event.

Please give God room to impress and comfort his children how He pleases ! It was for my own edification....did you find that verse for me?

I'll go to my grave thanking God for his presence that night.

Singer

 

[Gina B]

This thread is well over 20 pages! I'll close it sometime tomorrow morning folks.
Gina

 

[atestring]

Originally posted by atestring:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Briguy:
Walguy, Thanks for that clarification, you made a great point. The Jews that were involved at the crucifixion "scene" took the blame. That is scriptual. Atestring, is it starting to make some sense now? The Bible is such a wonderfully tied together book it just blows me away sometimes. I guess I should expect nothing less from God's own Word. Atestring, did we finally make our point clear on the 70AD thing? I hope that is clear. Listen, if you would pray about tongues and God reveals to you that they really did end don't feel that because you spoke in tongues you were some big "mess up" or something. Remember your heart was in the right place. If you never can see what we have said and I believed proved, I trust you will fix your eyes and energy on whats really important, loving God and loving others. Tongues never have compared to those two things and were never intended to.

In Love and Truth,
Brian

The answer is No. You have not convinced me. </font>[/QUOTE]Tongues does not contradict loving God and loving others.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by atestring:
Tongues does not contradict loving God and loving others.

And God does not contradict His Word.
Please explain 1Cor.14:21,22 to me.
DHK

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by atestring:
Tongues does not contradict loving God and loving others.

And God does not contradict His Word.
Please explain 1Cor.14:21,22 to me.
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]Verse 21 means that the Jews rejected God and the evidence of His Spirit.

Verse 22 means that tongues are for a sign *not* to them that believe because they were already believers!

If someone came in and heard the *believer* speak in tongues, in would make a *believer* out of them also.

Look how many *believed* on the Day of Pentecost!

Long story made short,
MEE

 

[Briguy]

Hey Singer, the first two verses are 1 cor. 12:7 in KJV and NASB.

But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.

Then Paul says below in 1 cor. 14:4

1 cor. 14: 4 (KJV) He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

1 cor. 14:4 (NASB) One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church.

Singer, I am not sure if this is the kind of thing you wanted me to show but this is good either way. First we see that clearly Paul says that “Gifts” are for the “church” that is the body of believers a person is affiliated with and in a sense the entire “body” of Christ. This is clear and direct. Then we have 1 cor. 14:4. Is this a counterdiction? Can we edify ourselves with a gift that is meant for the whole “body”. The answer is no, that too is clear. It must always be remembered that Paul was rebuking the church in Corinth and so 14:4 is a negative statement. He is saying in 14:4. If you speak in gibberish (tongue that is unknown to you) you are doing it to make yourself feel good and that is the wrong way a gift is used. He then goes on in 14, still in negative, and then to explain proper use of tongues. In Corinth everyone was running around speaking in gibberish and pretending they were somehow closer to God because of it and Paul rebukes that in 1 cor. 14. Singer read 1 cor. 14 from a rebuke standpoint and it will mean something different to you. Thanks for listening. The point I guess is that as fond as you are of your experience it wasn’t a gift of tongues. Maybe it was some other one time message from God or something, I will not judge you on that. There is no scripture to reflect what happened to you but again it is between you and God. I don’t think you should advocate that Tongues are for today based on your one time experience in light of what God’s Word says on the subject. I really hope that did not offend you, it wasn’t meant to, that’s for sure.

In Christian Love,
Brian

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by Briguy:

Singer... The point I guess is that as fond as you are of your experience it wasn’t a gift of tongues.

In Christian Love,
Brian [/QB]

Brian, I don't think that I have ever heard Singer say that he received the "gift of tongues."

I think he calls his experience "The Baptism of the Holy Ghost."

Singer, if I'm wrong, correct me!

MEE