Tonite, on the history channel.....

[poncho]

Poncho, you only want us to accept your version of the truth. Everyone who doesn't is blasted by you as a neocon, or someone to gullible to know they are under neocon control. So please, take the martyr jacket off.


You are as mean as anyone else, here.

Curtis, let me make it real simple okay...if you want me to accept your version of the truth, prove your theory is the correct one. It's that simple.

Apparently you believe the official story so tell me why and back it up with more than, "Poncho, yer a mean crazy person that thinks yer smarter than me." Quit yer whinin about me and prove it Curtis, it should be a piece of cake for ya by now you've had over five years to do the research and math and make your case so put it all together and throw it out there buddy.

For starters you could show us the evidence that proves "19 Arab hijackers 15 of them Saudis" were on those planes. Then you can show us how they were postively ID'd. Don't forget to tell us how and where the government and media got the DNA samples from the "hijackers" before hand so it could used to ID them later. Helpful hint here...you can't rely on Davin Coburn to give ya the answer cuz he doesn't have a clue either and he isn't interested in getting one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLx5GATh_z0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb49MfDrwOo

http://www.youtube.com/v/t0uVwS544Rg

C'mon man you want me to accept your version then prove it or at least make an attempt. Calling me mean and nutso an whinin about me thinkin I'm smarter than you all the time just ain't cuttin it, that's just a lame excuse to cover up for you takin the easy way out and lettin someone else do yer homework for ya. So go do it and then come back and prove your theory is correct. Like I said it should be easy for ya by now.

 

[carpro]

Curtis, let me make it real simple okay...if you want me to accept your version of the truth, prove your theory is the correct one. It's that simple.

Actually, what Curtis has, is the facts on his side. He doesn't have to prove them. They're generally accepted as such.

It is you that has an unprovable "theory". None of the crackpots you've dragged out has made a dent in the "official" story of 911.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Actually, what Curtis has, is the facts on his side. He doesn't have to prove them. They're generally accepted as such.

It is you that has an unprovable "theory". None of the crackpots you've dragged out has made a dent in the "official" story of 911.

We rarely agree on much, Carpro, but you are right on with this!:thumbs:

 

[poncho]

Actually, what Curtis has, is the facts on his side. He doesn't have to prove them. They're generally accepted as such.

It is you that has an unprovable "theory". None of the crackpots you've dragged out has made a dent in the "official" story of 911.

If that's the case as you claim Carpro then answer my two simple questions, it should be easy for ya by now. Where's the evidence that proves "19 hijackers 15 of them Saudis" were on those planes and where did the government and media get the DNA samples from the "hijackers" to compare to what was "discovered" at ground zero? Hope yer not gonna cop out again...it's only two little questions. You can handle em can't ya?

C'mon dude get yer facts together and present them if ya got em like you claim. It was generally accepted that the earth was flat at one time but that didn't make it so, did it? Or are you one of those people that still accept the notion the earth is flat?

It is you that has an unprovable "theory".

My only "theory" is that 9/11 couldn't have happened the way we were told. If your "theory" is correct...then it should be easy to answer the two simple questions I asked. So answer away.

Hey MP, if Carpro and Curtis have trouble answering these two simple questions maybe you can do it. How bout it? Care to give it go? Need I repeat them?

Waiting...

 

[poncho]

Still waiting...C'mon fellers if ya got the facts then flaunt em, don't be shy. Post em. Put em out there. Where's yer proof that "19 Arabs 15 of them Saudis" were on those planes? Where and how did the government and media get the hijacker's DNA samples (before hand?) to compare to the remains "found" at ground zero to make positive(?) ID's?

 

[NiteShift]

David Ray Griffin isn't anything like Alex Jones and some of these other guys. He just calmly goes about his business in a very detailed manner without all the emotion and tension. He doesn't call people names or accuse them of this that or the other, he deals in information.

The problem with that is that he does deal out the same nonsense, he just sounds more reasonable about it.

Griffin has apparently set aside his research into telepathy and clairvoyance for the time being. ("The basic fact is that telepathy and clairvoyance do seem to occur in some cases" he says).

This allows him to concentrate full-time on such things as endorsing the idea that voice-morphing technology was used (as he claimed in a speech in Vancouver recently) to fake the passenger calls from United Flight 93. A notion that George Papcun, the creator of voice-morphing technology has called "outrageous", and technically unfeasible.

 

[poncho]

The problem with that is that he does deal out the same nonsense, he just sounds more reasonable about it.

Griffin has apparently set aside his research into telepathy and clairvoyance for the time being. ("The basic fact is that telepathy and clairvoyance do seem to occur in some cases" he says).

This allows him to concentrate full-time on such things as endorsing the idea that voice-morphing technology was used (as he claimed in a speech in Vancouver recently) to fake the passenger calls from United Flight 93. A notion that George Papcun, the creator of voice-morphing technology has called "outrageous", and technically unfeasible.

And this answers my two simple little questions how exactly?

Still waiting...for answers.

BTW, do you have links to this information so we can all see it or are we just supposed to take yer word for it? And, have you actually read Griffin's book?

"Gentlemen! We have called you together to inform you that we are going to overthrow the United States government." So begins a statement being delivered by Gen. Carl W. Steiner, former Commander-in-chief, U.S. Special Operations Command. At least the voice sounds amazingly like him.

But it is not Steiner. It is the result of voice "morphing" technology developed at the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico.
By taking just a 10-minute digital recording of Steiner's voice, scientist George Papcun is able, in near real time, to clone speech patterns and develop an accurate facsimile. Steiner was so impressed, he asked for a copy of the tape.

Steiner was hardly the first or last victim to be spoofed by Papcun's team members. To refine their method, they took various high quality recordings of generals and experimented with creating fake statements. One of the most memorable is Colin Powell stating "I am being treated well by my captors."

"They chose to have him say something he would never otherwise have said," chuckled one of Papcun's colleagues.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/dotmil/arkin020199.htm

 

[NiteShift]

Where and how did the government and media get the hijacker's DNA samples (before hand?) to compare to the remains "found" at ground zero to make positive(?) ID's?

They did not have DNA samples beforehand. Medical Examiners requested them from the FBI in 2002 and received them in 2003. The FBI recovered them from locations such as hotels and other places where the hijackers stayed.

 

[poncho]

They did not have DNA samples beforehand. Medical Examiners requested them from the FBI in 2002 and received them in 2003. The FBI recovered them from locations such as hotels and other places where the hijackers stayed.

In three hours time? That's about how much time it took the MSM and government to assemble their "case" against them and "convict" them all by broadcasting the "results" of their "investigation" all over the world, that day. Everyone in the media and government "knew" who did it that day and told us so. How did they know? Where's the documents? Where's the hard evidence? What proves your statement is correct? How did you "verify" this information? Where can I find the results of these DNA tests?

Links might help.

What you're saying sounds reasonable but what have you got in the way of hard evidence to back it up?

 

[NiteShift]

The hijackers names were on the passenger list. Mohamed Atta had a frequent-flyer gold card

 

[poncho]

The hijackers names were on the passenger list. Mohamed Atta had a frequent-flyer gold card

Show me the flight manifests.

 

[NiteShift]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/09/14/national/main311268.shtml

 

[poncho]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/09/14/national/main311268.shtml

The Boston Globe reported on its web site Thursday that it had obtained a copy of the complete manifest list of the planes hijacked from Boston.

Okay, the Globe reported it obtained a copy...where is it then? Show me the flight manifests not second hand say so's.

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/AA11.victims.html

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/ua175.victims.html

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/ua93.victims.html

http://911review.org/Sept11Wiki/PassengerList.shtml

http://www.sierratimes.com/03/07/02/article_tro.htm

http://www.sierratimes.com/03/07/07/article_tro_flight77.htm

 

[NiteShift]

Poncho, those links that you posted are victim lists, not complete passenger lists.

Will try to get back later.

 

[poncho]

Poncho, those links that you posted are victim lists, not complete passenger lists.

Will try to get back later.

Then show me the complete passenger lists. Two of those links cover the autopsy reports. No Arabs found in these either, strangely enough.

 

[NiteShift]

All the hijackers booked their flights for 9/11 using their real names. There was no major problem in determining who was onboard.

*
August 25 - Khalid Almihdhar, and Majed Moqed bought tickets for American Airlines flight 77 using the AA.com website.
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/ST00001A.pdf
(Page 72 - 74)
*
August 26: Wail Alshehri bought a ticket for American Airlines flight 11 over the phone with his debit card. His brother Waleed bought a ticket for the same flight at the AA.com website using his debit card.
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/OG00020-07.pdf
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/ST00001A.pdf
*
August 27: Nawaf Alhazmi bought tickets for himself and his brother Salem for American Airlines flight 77 through Travelocity
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/ST00001A.pdf
(Page 72-74)
*
August 27: Saeed Alghamdi used his debit card to purchase tickets for United Airlines flight 93 for himself and Ahmed Alnami from the UA.com website.
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/ST00001A.pdf
(Page72-74)
*
August 27: Fayez Ahmed Banihammad used his visa card to purchase tickets for himself and Mohamed Alshehri for United Airlines flight 175 over the telephone.
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/ST00001A.pdf
(Page 72-74)
*
August 28: Mohamed Atta used his debit card to buy tickets for American Airlines flight 11 for himself and Abdulaziz Alomari from the AA.com website.
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/OG00020-02.pdf
*
August 28: Waleed Alshehri purchased a ticket for Satam al-Suqami for American Airlines flight 11 in person from the company’s counter at Fort Lauderdale Airport.
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/ST00001A.pdf
(Page 72-74)
*
August 28: Marwan Alshehhi purchased a ticket for United Airlines flight 175 from the company’s counter at Miami International Airport
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/ST00001A.pdf
(Page 72-74)

*
August 29: Hamza Alghamdi booked tickets for himself and Ahmed Alghamdi for United Airlines flight 175 from the UA.com website
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/OG00020-06.pdf
*
August 29: Ahmed Alhaznami created a new Travelocity.com account and booked a ticket for himself on United Airlines flight 93
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/ST00001A.pdf
*
August 30: Ziad Jarrah purchased a ticket for himself for United Airlines flight 93 from the UA website.
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/OG00020-03.pdf

*
August 31: Hani Hanjour purchased a ticket for American Airlines flight 77 from ATS Advanced Travel Services in Totowa, New Jersey, paying in cash.
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/OG00020-09.pdf
*

 

[NiteShift]

Hijacker Boarding of the flights -

AMERICAN AIRLINES FLIGHT 11
"All of the hijackers were accounted for in checking in and boarding the flight."
9/11 Commission Staff Report, Page 7.
http://www.archives.gov/legislative/research/9-11/staff-report-sept2005.pdf
*
UNITED AIRLINES FLIGHT 175
"Ahmed al Ghamdi and Hamza al Ghamdi checked in at the United Airlines ticket counter at Logan International Airport in Boston. They approached a United Airlines customer service representative who immediately referred them to another agent because one of the men presented a certificate that the first agent was unfamiliar with."

"This second customer service representative said that one of the two men told her that he needed a ticket. She examined his documents and found that he already had a UAL envelope with an itinerary and tickets in his hand. She told him that he did not need a ticket and could check in…"

6:20 AM Ahmed al Ghamdi checked two bags that were loaded onto the aircraft.
6:45 AM Marwan al Shehhi checked a single bag. It was loaded on the plane at 6:51.
6:53 AM Fayez Banihammad (listed in the airline passenger record as Fayez Ahmed) and Mohand al Shehri (listed as Mohald) checked. Banihammad checked two bags, which were loaded at 6:57 am.
Fayez Banihammad boarded the flight at 7:23 am. He was seated in 2A. Mohand al Shehri boarded at the same time and sat next to him in 2B.
7:28 AM Hamza al Ghamdi was the last hijacker to board the flight; he sat in 9C.
http://www.archives.gov/legislative/research/9-11/staff-report-sept2005.pdf
9/11 Commission Staff Report, Page 18.

*

AMERICAN AIRLINES FLIGHT 77
"At approximately 7:15 AM Majed Moqed and Khalid al Mildhar checked in at the American Airlines ticket counter at Dulles and proceeded to checkpoint screening."
"At approximately 7:29 AM Nawaf al Hamzi and Salem al Hazmi checked in at the American ticket counter."
http://www.archives.gov/legislative/research/9-11/staff-report-sept2005.pdf
9/11 Commission Staff Report, Page 27.

*

UNITED AIRLINES FLIGHT 93
At 7:03 AM Saeed al Ghamdi checked in at United Airlines ticket counter at Newark Airport but checked no baggage. Ahmed al Nami checked two bags. At 7:24 AM Ahmad al Haznawi checked a single bag. Finally at 7:39 AM Ziad Jarrah checked in at the UAL ticker counter; he did not have any luggage.
At 7:39 AM Haznawi and Ghamdi boarded the aircraft. Haznawi sat in 6B and Ghamdi in 3D. At 7:40 AM Nami boarded and sat in 3C. At 7:48 AM Jarrah boarded and sat in 1B.
http://www.archives.gov/legislative/research/9-11/staff-report-sept2005.pdf
9/11 Commission Staff Report, Page 35.

 

[JustChristian]

Examines the various conspiracy theories espoused on the Internet, in articles and in public forums that attempt to explain the 9/11 attacks. It includes theories that the World Trade Center was brought down by a controlled demolition; that a missile, not a commercial airliner, hit the Pentagon; and that members of the U.S. government orchestrated the attacks in hopes of creating a war in the Middle East. Each conspiracy argument is countered by a variety of experts in the fields of engineering, intelligence and the military. The program also delves into the anatomy of such conspiracies and how they grow on the Internet.

http://www.history.com/shows.do?action=detail&episodeId=240087

This program was extremely biased and provided little in the way of facts to back up their support for the popular myth that is called the truth about 9/11. For instance, on 9/11 al Quaeda was identified as being responsible for the attacks. Two days later, all 19 of the hijackers were identified. Where was the proof for any of this? It was non-existant just like the prood for "weapons of mass destruction."

 

[NiteShift]

For instance, on 9/11 al Quaeda was identified as being responsible for the attacks. Two days later, all 19 of the hijackers were identified. Where was the proof for any of this?

Well if you look at the above posts, you’ll see that the hijackers bought tickets and boarded the planes under their real names. That is how they were identified.

Pres. Bush said on Sep 16th that al Qaeda "is the prime suspect" and then said in a Sept. 20 address to the nation that "the evidence we have gathered all points to a collection of loosely affiliated terrorist organizations known as al Qaeda".

Why did he say that? Well, the group al-Qaeda was already believed to have been responsible for the 1993 WTC attack, the 1998 embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania, and the 2000 attack on the U.S.S. Cole.

Secretary of State Colin Powell said on the 16th that several leads were being followed, all of them pointing back to al Qaeda.

 

[poncho]

Where's the flight manifests?