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Transgender and the church

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Steadfast Fred

Active Member
If it was God's will that none be born with defects, He would have caused them to be born thus.

He didn't. Notice Jesus did not tell Bartemaeus, 'Go see a doctor.' Nor did Peter and John tell the lame man, 'Silver and gold have I none, but go see a doctor.'

And if it was God's will for all to be healed by a doctor, I wonder why no doctor has been able to remedy my health problems? Sure, pills help to hide the symptoms for a while, (which I have been taking for years) but the pills do nothing to cure.

But again, who is man to say a male is to be a female or vice versa? God made them the way he wanted them. He did not make anyone one gender so they could choose to look like another.
 
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gb93433

Active Member
Site Supporter
Scarlett O. said:
I do believe that it is a sin, but not because of any same-sex attraction, but because to me it is believing that God made a mistake when He assigned you your gender.
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There were cases of sexual assignment at birth and now that they are older the real gender is apparent. Years ago tests were not sophisticated as they are now and the doctors just did the assignment based on very limited knowledge.
 
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gb93433

Active Member
Site Supporter
Steadfast Fred said:
But again, who is man to say a male is to be a female or vice versa? God made them the way he wanted them. He did not make anyone one gender so they could choose to look like another.
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What do you suggest with those who were born as a hermaphrodite?
 
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sag38

Active Member
Fred would have a totally different attitude and singing a different toon if he would have had a child born this way. It's real easy to make judgments from the sideline sort of like people who like to manage the church from the pew.
 
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Steadfast Fred

Active Member
sag38 said:
Fred would have a totally different attitude and singing a different toon if he would have had a child born this way. It's real easy to make judgments from the sideline sort of like people who like to manage the church from the pew.
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sag, I highly doubt you can read my mind. Since I have been saved for more than 30 years, and God has not shown me in His Word that one can have an operation to change one's gender, I can tell you without reserve that if I had a child born a hermaphrodite, I would accept that as God's will.

You may choose to question God's will concerning the gender of a child, I cannot.
 
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Steadfast Fred

Active Member
gb93433 said:
How did God assign them? Both male and female? So does that mean they could marry either sex?
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In such a case, I would think that if it is God's will that such an one get married, it would probably be to another such an one.

But it is possible that such an one was born for the same purpose as one who is born a eunuch... to remain celibate.
 
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Alive in Christ

New Member
MenagerieKeeper...

Sez who? Which person in authority has not sinned? And remember, you can't tell me that she is continuing in sin, until you prove it was sin to change genders in the first place.
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What???? :eek:

Are you actually (((IN DOUBT))) as to whether it is a SIN to have a....

SEX CHANGE OPERATION?!?!

In the words of a famous tennis player.....

You can NOT be SERIOUS!!
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;)
 
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Steadfast Fred

Active Member
Sadly, many today see no wrong in people changing their sex. And when one is found to have changed their sex who was working in the Church, that one should be removed from any position they hold in the Church... even if it is only a janitorial position.

And what kind of message is accepting such as one sending to our youth? That having a sex change is ok? That God will not punish someone who is inferring that He somehow made a mistake when He assigned them to a certain gender?
 
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sag38

Active Member
I am in no way advocating s#x changes. But, when a child is born with male and female parts a decision should be made as to what s%x the child will grow up to be. For a man to marry another man who has had a supposed se$ change is nothing but homose+uality with a sick twist.
 
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Steadfast Fred

Active Member
sag38 said:
I am in no way advocating s#x changes. But, when a child is born with male and female parts a decision should be made as to what s%x the child will grow up to be. For a man to marry another man who has had a supposed se$ change is nothing but homose+uality with a sick twist.
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It would appear to me that God had already made the decision. God is the one who forms the child in the mother's womb, is He not? Doctor's are playing God when they give anyone a sex operation. People are playing God when they elect to change the sex of a child or of themselves. They are in effect saying God did not know what He was doing when he created me or my child.

Romans 9:20 (KJV) Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
 
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sag38

Active Member
Were this to be your child or your grandchild you would sing a different tune. By the way thanks for the text book example of lifting a verse out of context.
 
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Steadfast Fred

Active Member
sag38 said:
Were this to be your child or your grandchild you would sing a different tune. By the way thanks for the text book example of lifting a verse out of context.
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Whether you want to accept it or not, the application is still there, sag. We have no right whatsoever to question what sex we are or even to decide what sex we are.

How's this one?

Jeremiah 1:5 (KJV) Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

God forms the infant in the mother's womb. One is playing God when one attempts to change that one's gender.
 
menageriekeeper

menageriekeeper

Active Member
Alive in Christ said:
Are you actually (((IN DOUBT))) as to whether it is a SIN to have a....

SEX CHANGE OPERATION?!?!
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Lets remember what I was talking about when this quote was made:

1. That it is continuing sin for someone who underwent gender reassignment BEFORE they were saved to continue living in the gender they find themselves with after salvation. and this question wasn't answered to my satisfaction)

2. that was sin and therefore is continuing sin, for someone who had "reassignment" surgery to correct ambigous gender issues though they may have been "assigned" a gender baded on decisions made for them at their birth, by doctors and/or parents.

Yes, I agree that it is sin for a fully normal male/female to desire to change into a not so normal female/male. But once the deed is done and after that salvation accomplished? That is a question not easily answered.

Jeremiah 1:5 (KJV) Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

God forms the infant in the mother's womb. One is playing God when one attempts to change that one's gender.
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Oh please! If I had a dime for every time someone quoted me this verse as an argument against birth control I'd be a rich woman. Now you are using it to argue against medicine trying to allieve the suffering of those born with birth defects! For shame.

Yes, Jeremiah was appointed by God in ages past for a special purpose, but neither this verse nor any other similar verse (and there are several and I know them all) say or imply that EVERY human was born with special purpose. Nor do any of them imply that corruption that fills this earth stops at the womb. Only hard headed intentional ignorance makes that claim.

As for the years you've been saved? Hardly a bragging point since I have you beat by 9 years and others here have me beat by more than that plus they have seminary educations. Years saved do not equal how mature one is in Christ. :rolleyes:
 
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Steadfast Fred

Active Member
Seminary education is not a necessity to know the will of God. Neither Peter, nor Paul were educated in a seminary.

As to your accusation about me and medicine, you are misquoting me. I did not say medicine, I said "surgery."

God formed us, He formed us for a purpose. Scripture declares we were created for His pleasure. He created us in the bodies we were in because that is how he wanted us to be born.

Man has no right whatsoever to perform surgery on anyone to allegedly 'correct gender'... none whatsoever.
 
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