Transgendered Member?

[xlsdraw]

The choice to alter his body was made before becoming a believer according to the OP, and also according to the OP is willing to live with the consequences, not attempting to undo.

Is this not in accordance with the Scripture, “Go, sin no more?”

According to the OP, the person is not engaging in deceitful coverup, but has admitted to the sin.

The sin consequences has far reaching significance, but reversal at this point is not only medically hazardous, but not even suggested in Scripture.

A murderer does not undo the murder.
The fornicator does not undo the fornication.
The pervert molester of children does not undo the damage to children.

Yet folks would actually require this person to make great and highly risk filled and job jeopardizing efforts to undo a long ago sin in which they must face everyday.

Frankly I am stunned by the callousness.

The murderer, the fornicator, the pervert lives as a changed person in the assembly as an example to others of the love, grace and mercy of God.

Yet, no love, mercy, grace can be extended to this person because they must put health, life, livelihood and all such on in jeopardy just to get something from an assembly that is supposed to be worthy of emulating Christ?

What happened to Romans 8:1?

If there is no condemnation from Christ, what do you think separates the relationship according to Romans 8?

Admonishment is Christian duty. For this individuals sake, I hope a few Christian brothers in his church have the spiritual strength to correct this individual. Callousness is allowing this individual to continue in his deception of both others and himself.

This deviance is similar to the 1st Corinthian's matter that had to be addressed for the sake of Christ's church.

 

[righteousdude2]

First, your statement is completely irrelevant. We don't know if this man emasculated himself. If he has, he already made the decision never to have children, whether or not he transitions back. And, whether or not he has, makes no difference to whether his cross-dressing church should be allowed.



You speak with a forked tongue. This young man is in violation of a number of NT verses, and OT verses, too. Here are a couple of examples, "Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears long hair it is a disgrace for him." The "effeminate" and homosexuals will "not inherent the kingdom of God."



Believers have a right and an obligation to uphold biblical standards in their churches.



You made three points. The first is irrelevant. The second point is a lie. And, your third point is hypocritical, because you say it about his dress, but you wouldn't say it about a neonazi coming to church in his uniform. How quickly you can blow a reputation about being conservative with scriptures.



How do you know he's been honest? If he were being honest, he wouldn't be dressing as a woman after claiming to regret the transition. Oh, honest about being a man? LOL!!!!

"I'm such an honest lady. I told them I was born a boy. Otherwise, they never would have known."

Please forgive my appearance as being judgemental, but this person, like most trannys, looks like a freak of nature. By that I mean that they just look as they appear to be in principal, out of line with God's created perfection. They do not come across as naturally appearing. But rather, they look out-of-sorts with the perfection God placed upon His finished product. This tranny does not look like they fit His perfect plan in creation. Just out of sorts. Shameful!

 

[Shoostie]

Please forgive my appearance as being judgemental, but this person, like most trannys, looks like a freak of nature.

The notion that this tranny's friends and cowokers don't know he's a he is incredible. Either way, a church that extends membership to a man dressed as a woman is a reprobate church and should be booted from the SBC fellowship.

 

[Jerome]

Reminder, that these procedures were once performed at the hospital of the Southern Baptist state convention of Oklahoma!

Years ago it was 'the place to go' for these sort of surgeries.

PDF Southern Baptist Historical Library & Archives

the hospital's governing board, elected by the state Baptist Convention, voted 11-5
...to continue the operations.

How about y'all cut off the ERLC and put its CP $$$ toward paying for restoration surgeries/therapy for all of those individuals who are requesting it?

What do they say, put your money where your mouth is?

 

[agedman]

What has been lost in many of the responses in this thread is what the OP alluded to. I quote:

"Few know this person had gender reassignment surgery and he is a very convincing and even somewhat pretty looking female... Which creates a whole other issue when you see youth boys fawning over this person (which this person does ignore)."

There as more at stake in a situation like this than just the individual who is taking on a false gender identity. What of the youth in a church where this situation is taking place? What does it say to them? Have compassion for the person who repents for their sinful choice and lifestyle? Absolutely. But not at the cost of putting others in the body of Christ at risk.

Typically, youthful lust is slathered over fanciful curiosity and the blatant enticement by silly women.

It is not the person of the OP that needs instruction in fleeing youth lust.

I do question into what risk others are put?

Is there a history of predatory behavior(s) the OP has indicated about this person?


Or is it the fear and bias of assumption driven thinking rather than trusting the providence of God?

 

[agedman]

The notion that this tranny's friends and cowokers don't know he's a he is incredible. Either way, a church that extends membership to a man dressed as a woman is a reprobate church and should be booted from the SBC fellowship.

1) no it is not incredible. How many folks really know much about their co-workers? Especially considering the heightened levels of scrutiny concerning interaction between genders and law suits.

Back in my day, women were regularly harassed by male staff. Rare was a woman not treated with crude and rude talk and behaviors that are not tolerated among co-workers of today.

2) You are snagged into gender rather than allowing the redemption, growth in Spiritual maturity, and allowing the Scriptures and work of the Holy Spirit to guide the person into what they should or should not have done.

In fact, you wouldn’t even allow for that process because you would expect completed transformation, completed maturity of the branch before allowing it nourishments from the vine.

3) would you point to specific Scripture membership qualifications that require a person to first un-murder, un-lust, un-fornicate, un-lie, un-tattoo, ... prior to being redeemed?

Ultimately, that is what is being presented.

It is either that, or your church admission policy excludes the redeemed.

 

[agedman]

Admonishment is Christian duty. For this individuals sake, I hope a few Christian brothers in his church have the spiritual strength to correct this individual. Callousness is allowing this individual to continue in his deception of both others and himself.

This deviance is similar to the 1st Corinthian's matter that had to be addressed for the sake of Christ's church.

Admonishment comes AFTER believers being accepted into a local assembly. Other than that, it would have to be a written policy of “exclusion unless” in which then the assembly violates the Scriptures.

The exception to that is one coming to join yet has no intention of not continuing in sin.

However, the OP clearly states this person has set sensual sin aside. Something that is remarkable considering most SBC churches bring no rebuke or accountability to those who are known fornicators and are members.

 

[agedman]

Please forgive my appearance as being judgemental, but this person, like most trannys, looks like a freak of nature. By that I mean that they just look as they appear to be in principal, out of line with God's created perfection. They do not come across as naturally appearing. But rather, they look out-of-sorts with the perfection God placed upon His finished product. This tranny does not look like they fit His perfect plan in creation. Just out of sorts. Shameful!

You must understand the pictures presented by the poster is not the person of which the OP concerns.

That is part of the agenda of deceit.

Often folks would look upon only the person of the OP being deceitful, yet on this thread there are many posts that present that which the OP specifically does not include concerning the history, character, and testimony of the person.

That is deceitful. That it even extended to pictures is truly regretful.

 

[Reynolds]

Admonishment comes AFTER believers being accepted into a local assembly. Other than that, it would have to be a written policy of “exclusion unless” in which then the assembly violates the Scriptures.

The exception to that is one coming to join yet has no intention of not continuing in sin.

However, the OP clearly states this person has set sensual sin aside. Something that is remarkable considering most SBC churches bring no rebuke or accountability to those who are known fornicators and are members.

When dealing with a sin, that sin should be the topic of discussion. Diverting the discussion to other sins is not productive.

 

[Reformed]

Typically, youthful lust is slathered over fanciful curiosity and the blatant enticement by silly women.

It is not the person of the OP that needs instruction in fleeing youth lust.

I do question into what risk others are put?

Is there a history of predatory behavior(s) the OP has indicated about this person?


Or is it the fear and bias of assumption driven thinking rather than trusting the providence of God?

What I mean is that falsely assuming another gender puts other people at risk, in this case, young people in the church.

Some of what I am reading in this thread reveals how successful the world has been in infiltrating the church with its insidious worldview. We are so afraid of offending people that we are willing to compromise the truth because we do not want to erroneously labeled as intolerant, homophobes, or racists. I have never once suggested or intimated that a person who had so-called gender reassignment surgery cannot truly repent of that grave sin and come to faith in Christ. Of course, they can. I also said we should show them love and compassion. But allowing them to persist in their sin by continuing to falsely assume another gender is participating in their sin. Scripture emphatically states in Genesis 5:2, "He created them male and female, and He blessed them and named them Man in the day when they were created." God blessed them as male and female. There is no equivocation in God's creation of the human race. Yes. The person who submits to so-called gender reassignment surgery mutilates their body and has to deal with a myriad of consequences. Those who think it just better to let them continue living as a member of the gender opposite their birth (albeit in a celibate lifestyle), while at the same time being a member of a church have been infected by the worldview I mentioned earlier in this paragraph.

 

[agedman]

When dealing with a sin, that sin should be the topic of discussion. Diverting the discussion to other sins is not productive.

In this case the “sin” isn’t really the issue.

The person of the OP has a life lived as unredeemed.

They bear the scars in the body of actions taken while unredeemed.

They have mental resolves determined largely by the redemption of never engaging again in the sin.

Yet, the majority of posters on this thread present that prior to being allowed to join the assembly, to be under the authority of the assembly, to be nourished and bring their own gift by God to the assembly, the person is required to undo sin.

Sin cannot be undone, only forgiven.

Sin has life long consequences that brings reminders of God’s mercy and His authority.

Is it not true that some presentations on this thread bring doubt about the redemption, desire burdens that sound more like Judaizers of Paul’s day who desired some fleshly conformity, and bring into question the very purpose of the assembly?

Yet, these same posters would allow and even excuse other more condemned sensuality in the assembly?

Such should resolve their own eye disease before it infect everyone’s eyes.

1Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.​

The OP presents a person who has set aside sin, yet the consequences remain, so the running may certainly be hindered.

The OP presents the person determined to remain as Paul suggested, a-sexual, to not be encumbered.

The OP presents the person as redeemed.

If “there is therefore no condemnation” what authority do these who post desire to condemn?

33Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.

34Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.

35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?
​

Who prevented access to the Temple? Pharisees

What do the greater number of posters on this thread line with?

Christ or Pharisees?

 

[agedman]

What I mean is that falsely assuming another gender puts other people at risk, in this case, young people in the church.

Some of what I am reading in this thread reveals how successful the world has been in infiltrating the church with its insidious worldview. We are so afraid of offending people that we are willing to compromise the truth because we do not want to erroneously labeled as intolerant, homophobes, or racists. I have never once suggested or intimated that a person who had so-called gender reassignment surgery cannot truly repent of that grave sin and come to faith in Christ. Of course, they can. I also said we should show them love and compassion. But allowing them to persist in their sin by continuing to falsely assume another gender is participating in their sin. Scripture emphatically states in Genesis 5:2, "He created them male and female, and He blessed them and named them Man in the day when they were created." God blessed them as male and female. There is no equivocation in God's creation of the human race. Yes. The person who submits to so-called gender reassignment surgery mutilates their body and has to deal with a myriad of consequences. Those who think it just better to let them continue living as a member of the gender opposite their birth (albeit in a celibate lifestyle), while at the same time being a member of a church have been infected by the worldview I mentioned earlier in this paragraph.

Now I would agree that persistence of any sin in the assembly should bring either repentance or exclusion.

But this isn’t the issue.

The person of the OP has set aside the sin. Not the consequences. They will live the rest of life with the consequences, just as all redeemed must do.

Just as one redeemed does not have the initial maturity beyond the “first love” brought by God, the growth in Scriptures and work of the Holy Spirit will bring all true believers to reassess how they might address consequences of sin.

The person of the OP may one day declare to the heathens at work that which they once lived. WHEN experience of God’s preservation and continual presence provides security.

No child jumps from safety into the arms of even a parent without first experiences of reliability and trust.

This is not a matter of “afraid of offense” this is a mater of being offensive without a Scriptural authority.

The OP presents one scared by sin, yet redeemed.

Why should believers be so caught up with looking at scars of sin rather than rejoicing with the angels at the repentance of a sinner?

The person of the OP isn’t deceitful, as they mature in God, they will be more open.

Who is really deceitful?

Those who shamefully would even suggest physical reformation prior to acceptance, and in so doing actually question the testimony of redemption.

 

[Reformed]

I am grieved at some of the things I have read in this thread. Truly the god of this age has a foothold in evangelicalism.

 

[Reynolds]

In this case the “sin” isn’t really the issue.

The person of the OP has a life lived as unredeemed.

They bear the scars in the body of actions taken while unredeemed.

They have mental resolves determined largely by the redemption of never engaging again in the sin.

Yet, the majority of posters on this thread present that prior to being allowed to join the assembly, to be under the authority of the assembly, to be nourished and bring their own gift by God to the assembly, the person is required to undo sin.

Sin cannot be undone, only forgiven.

Sin has life long consequences that brings reminders of God’s mercy and His authority.

Is it not true that some presentations on this thread bring doubt about the redemption, desire burdens that sound more like Judaizers of Paul’s day who desired some fleshly conformity, and bring into question the very purpose of the assembly?

Yet, these same posters would allow and even excuse other more condemned sensuality in the assembly?

Such should resolve their own eye disease before it infect everyone’s eyes.

1Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.​

The OP presents a person who has set aside sin, yet the consequences remain, so the running may certainly be hindered.

The OP presents the person determined to remain as Paul suggested, a-sexual, to not be encumbered.

The OP presents the person as redeemed.

If “there is therefore no condemnation” what authority do these who post desire to condemn?

33Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.

34Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.

35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?
​

Who prevented access to the Temple? Pharisees

What do the greater number of posters on this thread line with?

Christ or Pharisees?

Its a tough issue. If he is still living as "she" , it calls true repentance into question.

 

[agedman]

Its a tough issue. If he is still living as "she" , it calls true repentance into question.

I totally agree.

However, the OP made it clear that the person had determined to live a-sexually.

And there should be (as with any new convert) a support system - mentor, or someone in which accountability and discipleship stirs both further acceptance into the assembly family, but also guides them in table manners, so to speak.

 

[Revmitchell]

So, at our SBC church (in a college town) we have a young man (who has had gender reassignment surgery to now look like a woman and have her parts) that has been coming to our college group for a few years now. The individual is graduating this Dec and will likely move to a different class. The person has come forward (2 yrs ago, and made a profession of faith). The person believes that their actions were sinful, but considers it done (kinda like a person who has divorced and remarried). The individual also can not afford re-reassignment surgery to go back to looking like a male again.

Few know this person had gender reassignment surgery and he is a very convincing and even somewhat pretty looking female... Which creates a whole other issue when you see youth boys fawning over this person (which this person does ignore). Further, the individual considers themselves “a-sexual” or planning to live a life of celibacy (probably because they’ve destroyed their natural hormones/sex drive).

I believe this person has accepted Christ and wants to serve Him. Would you require surgery before joining?

I would require that they show they have made a habit of presenting them self as a male to the best of their ability.

 

[Reformed1689]

@agedman you seem to think that there is truth to transgenderism. That someone can actually alter their gender. They can't. They can only alter appearances. They are still male with an x and y chromosome. If they continue to live as a woman they are continuing in their sin willfully.

 

[agedman]

I am grieved at some of the things I have read in this thread. Truly the god of this age has a foothold in evangelicalism.

I stated in my first post to this thread , "As long time posters on the BB know, I am about as conservative as any when it pertains to the Scriptures."

I suppose the question of "false" gender would be an issue, IF that person continued to live out that sin.

I didn't read that as a truthful presentation in the OP. Rather, that they determined to not facilitate that sin in their body any longer.

Some take that the sin is continued by the person's manner of dress. I disagree.

For example, I recall back when churches would actually provide skirts for women who showed up to the assembly in pants. Men who were without a coat and tie were not presentable especially in the pulpit.

These things are no longer an issue.

One could suppose that the focus of the attention would be upon Christ, the redemption of the lost, and the maturity of the redeemed, rather than upon the clothing.

The NT Scriptures place priority upon the modesty and chase presentation, not upon what is worn.

In my opinion, it is because of the social worship norms, and the fact that the early church had former effeminate, male and female temple prostitutes, ... in their midst that the emphasis wasn't upon apparel as much as it was upon character.

IF as the OP states this person is redeemed, then as they mature, they may one day stand before the assembly nd before their co-workers and lay out a glorious testimony of not only the redemption, but of the work of the Holy Spirit in their life bringing them from strength to strength, from struggles of the flesh into reliance upon the providence and perseverance provided by God.

Wouldn't that be something to hear, and rejoice!

And rather than confusion in the work-place, the wonderful story of transformation from darkness to light would be told to the Glory of The Father.

 

[Revmitchell]

Some take that the sin is continued by the person's manner of dress. I disagree.

You and all the liberals who support the transgender agenda.

 

[agedman]

@agedman you seem to think that there is truth to transgenderism. That someone can actually alter their gender. They can't. They can only alter appearances. They are still male with an x and y chromosome. If they continue to live as a woman they are continuing in their sin willfully.

The opening chapters of Romans clearly teaches that the twisting of the mind is a sign that God has given not just that person, but the social order of that society, for example the U.S., turned over to destruction.

So, certainly, it is well understood that some do consider themselves what they are biologically not. That does not mean redemption cannot take place.

However, as the OP relates concerning this person, they have come to understand the sinfulness of the altering done.

I have not spent time in my responses concerning the medical issues. Perhaps because you do bring it up I should make a bit of a remark.

It is a popular myth that restorative surgery can be done.

It cannot (unlike other sin) undo that alteration that has been done. Bluntly, that which is removed cannot be replaced.

At best the modern restorative surgeries (more often performed upon the wounded vets) are a pitiful, painful, ongoing medical ordeal.

Unlike a vet, this procedure in which the person has so completely been deformed and formed into that which they now are, has significant potential of leaving the person with no longer control over the basics of discharge.

In essence, it is better that nothing physical be done.

Setting that aside, the birth "gender issue" really isn't an issue. The Scriptures Christ saying:

"For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.”​

Accordingly, the OP presents that the person has been made a eunuch by both men and by determination of the mind. They will live their life as a-sexual as can be lived.


That only leaves one issue. That concerning their outward appearance.


(Imo) in order to NOT to allow the devil to bring confusion to the assembly and the workplace the person may for a time continue in the manner of clothing choice folks are accustomed.

Now, that may not be ultimately agreeable. But there is NO sin involved as some on the thread want to assign. If one has no sex, then what one wares is no body else's business. That person is free to dress in the manner that pleases, as long as it is modest.

This is why it is important that time, maturity in Christ, and reliance upon His preservation and authority be granted.

No doubt, should that person grow in the Lord, they will one day stand before the congregation and bring glory to God for the leading He has given.

That person will then stand (with the authority of the congregation) in the work place and again bring glory to God in testimony to the heathens of Him who loved first, shown light first, provided the strength and courage in the faith first, and that such is available to any who desire under the authority of the work of the Holy Spirit to have their own life transformed, not as a matter of reformation, but a mater of transformation that ultimately results in reformation.

DNA means very little to the creator, it is for propagation in the flesh of this world and does not pertain to redemption nor to eternity. The new creation has no gender specifics.

This person, according to the OP has determined not to live as a woman.

Time and growth in Christ will change the outward appearance.