I beg to differ...........</font>[/QUOTE]Knowing what I believe and comparing it to what I have said, you are wrong. I did not say that and you know it. You are twisting my words.
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Translator Question
- Thread starter Pastor_Bob
- Start date
Did you read Prov 26:5? Answer a fool lest he be wise in his own conceit.
I assume that your posts mean that you have no answer for the problems that have been presented with your position. Let's review them:
1) You cite as proof a known and documented liar who twists people's words to make her own point.
2) You refuse to address biblical questions.
3) You question the salvation of those who disagree with you.
4) You call those who disagree with you fools.
In all of this, you have offered not one iota of biblical evidence for your position. You have only cited the opinions and ideas of man. I am more interested in teh word of God. Will you address that?
AV Defender
New Member
Proverbs 26:4 KJV,Matt 23:24
[ December 27, 2002, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: JYD ]
[ December 27, 2002, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: JYD ]
neal4christ
New Member
Is this attitude really necessary? I monitor these discussions in the Bible versions forum and especially the KJV discussions. I love the KJV, but it is a translation. I have recently switched to the ESV. Now am I a Bible hater? Absolutely not. I love the Word of God (Psalm 119:103). This whole subject (KJVO) has caused me great distress for well over two years. And in that time I have only found bitter, hateful arguments from the KJVO camp. On this board I have found the same thing for the most part (not Pastor Bob). If you love the KJV, then fine use it. But you CANNOT force others to. And carrying on railing personal attacks is not Christ-like at all. I am very disappointed to see Christians act like this. No wonder the lost are turned off to Christianity, and no wonder some Christians are turned off to the KJV. It is an excellent TRANSLATION and worthy to be studied and used, yet you hurt your own position by the way that you act. Truly I do not see the fruit of the Spirit in these arguments.
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." Galatians 5:22-23
Those defending MV's display this much more than the other side, especially the longsuffering part!
Just some insight from an onlooker who is disappointed with what he sees. I think that we should use some of this zeal winning the lost rather than bashing brothers and sisters.
Neal
[ December 27, 2002, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: neal4christ ]
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." Galatians 5:22-23
Those defending MV's display this much more than the other side, especially the longsuffering part!
Just some insight from an onlooker who is disappointed with what he sees. I think that we should use some of this zeal winning the lost rather than bashing brothers and sisters.
Neal
[ December 27, 2002, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: neal4christ ]
S
Steve K.
Guest
Ditto my above.
neal4christ
New Member
Okay, so you are now calling me a fool and a corrupter of God's Word. Pretty bold statement, considering I have not argued with you but have rather posted what I have observed. Boy, I guess it is easier to call names and throw accusations than to discuss a topic or given reasonable arguments..........
Neal
Terry_Herrington
New Member
Steve K and JYD
I have to ask, do either of you ever post anything that is useful? All you two seem to do is parrot this garbage about the KJV being superior to the modern versions. This is pure hogwash.
My wife works in a Christian bookstore and they sell scores of bibles each week. She tells me that the NLT and the NIV both outsell the KJV. I know that she steers customers who ask, away from the KJV. It is important to give people a bible that is written in a language they can understand. We do not live in 1611, we live in 2002. We need a bible written in a language that people today can understand.
Just think, your great, grandchildren may not even know what a KJV bible looks like.
I have to ask, do either of you ever post anything that is useful? All you two seem to do is parrot this garbage about the KJV being superior to the modern versions. This is pure hogwash.
My wife works in a Christian bookstore and they sell scores of bibles each week. She tells me that the NLT and the NIV both outsell the KJV. I know that she steers customers who ask, away from the KJV. It is important to give people a bible that is written in a language they can understand. We do not live in 1611, we live in 2002. We need a bible written in a language that people today can understand.
Just think, your great, grandchildren may not even know what a KJV bible looks like.
-kman[/QUOTE]Originally posted by kman:
I guess you are a bible corrector and she is a bible "director".
I know you meant that as humor
(and it was a good one) but it allows me to explain something important. The KJVonlyites make a big point of those preferring modern Bibles as being "Bible correctors." I believe a far more appropriate term would be 'Bible improvers.' The scholars and translators who strive from generation to generation in IMPROVING the Bible are much to be admired, for they help us to better understand Jesus Christ and our relation with and responsibilities to Him.Now, before one of the KJVonlyites goes nuclear and says that the KJV is God's perfect Word, let me make another point. The Bible, any Bible, is a RECORD of God's Word. The Living Word existed before humanity and will exist long after humanity. IT is perfect and IT is wonderful and IT is God's True Love for us and for all things great and small throughout the Universes He creates. ... Our Bibles, all Bibles, have mistakes in translation, typos, and--on top of all that--widely varying interpretations. There are 18,000 denominations and a few snake handlers and speakers in tongues within mere miles of my own house of worship... and each and every one of them use the same Bible (up here in the Carolina mountains, it's usually the KJV, too).
So don't quote Proverbs 26:4, to me my brother, if you truly do not grasp the big picture. And thank God on your knees that, albeit not perfect, He gave us the Bible and that He gave us the brains to constantly strive in improving it.
Yes, blessed be the correctors of Bibles, for they bring greater enlightment to us all. And blessed be the directors of Bibles in stores of books, because they lead us unto the truth.
--Ralph
[ December 28, 2002, 10:37 PM: Message edited by: Author ]
S
Steve K.
Guest
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Try Answering These From Your NIV
By Rex L. Cobb
INSTRUCTIONS: Using the New International Version Bible, answer the
following questions.
Do not rely on your memory. As the Bible is the final authority, you must
take the answer from the Bible verse (not from footnotes but from the
text).
Fill in the missing words in Matthew 5:44. "Love your enemies,__________
them that curse you, ______________ to them that hate you, and pray for
them that __________ and persecute you."
According to Matthew 17:21, what two things are required to cast out this
type of demon?
According to Matthew 18:11, why did Jesus come to earth?
According to Matthew 27:2, what was Pilate's first name?
In Matthew 27:35, when the wicked soldiers parted His garments, they were
fulfilling the words of the prophet. Copy what the prophet said in
Matthew 27:35 from the NIV.
In Mark 3:15, Jesus gave the apostles power to cast out demons and to:
____________
According to Mark 7:16, what does a man need to be able to hear?
According to Luke 7:28, what was John? (teacher, prophet, carpenter,
etc.). What is his title or last name?
In Luke 9:55, what did the disciples not know?
In Luke 9:56, what did the Son of man not come to do? According to this
verse, what did He come to do?
In Luke 22:14, how many apostles were with Jesus?
According to Luke 23:38, in what three languages was the superscription
written?
In Luke 24:42, what did they give Jesus to eat with His fish?
John 3:13 is a very important verse, proving the deity of Christ.
According to this verse (as Jesus spoke), where is the Son of man?
What happened each year as told in John 5:4?
In John 7:50, what time of day did Nicodemus come to Jesus?
In Acts 8:37, what is the one requirement for baptism?
What did Saul ask Jesus in Acts 9:6?
Write the name of the man mentioned in Acts 15:34.
Study Acts 24:6-8. What would the Jew have done with Paul? What was the
chief captain's name? What did the chief captain command?
Copy Romans 16:24 word for word from the NIV.
First Timothy 3:16 is perhaps the greatest verse in the New Testament
concerning the deity of Christ. In this verse, who was manifested in the
flesh?
In the second part of First Peter 4:14, how do [they] speak of Christ?
And, what do we Christians do?
Who are the three Persons of the Trinity in First John 5:7?
Revelation 1:11 is another very important verse that proves the deity of
Christ. In the first part of this verse Jesus said, "I am the
A______________ and O___________, the _________ and the _______:"
Conclusion: Little space is provided for your answers, but it's much more
than needed. If you followed the instructions above, you not only failed
the test, you receive a big goose egg.
(These are all missing in the NIV.) So now what do you think of your
"accurate, easy to understand, up to date Bible"?
If you would like to improve your score, and in fact score 100%, you can
take this test using the Authorized (King James) Bible.
Try Answering These From Your NIV
By Rex L. Cobb
INSTRUCTIONS: Using the New International Version Bible, answer the
following questions.
Do not rely on your memory. As the Bible is the final authority, you must
take the answer from the Bible verse (not from footnotes but from the
text).
Fill in the missing words in Matthew 5:44. "Love your enemies,__________
them that curse you, ______________ to them that hate you, and pray for
them that __________ and persecute you."
According to Matthew 17:21, what two things are required to cast out this
type of demon?
According to Matthew 18:11, why did Jesus come to earth?
According to Matthew 27:2, what was Pilate's first name?
In Matthew 27:35, when the wicked soldiers parted His garments, they were
fulfilling the words of the prophet. Copy what the prophet said in
Matthew 27:35 from the NIV.
In Mark 3:15, Jesus gave the apostles power to cast out demons and to:
____________
According to Mark 7:16, what does a man need to be able to hear?
According to Luke 7:28, what was John? (teacher, prophet, carpenter,
etc.). What is his title or last name?
In Luke 9:55, what did the disciples not know?
In Luke 9:56, what did the Son of man not come to do? According to this
verse, what did He come to do?
In Luke 22:14, how many apostles were with Jesus?
According to Luke 23:38, in what three languages was the superscription
written?
In Luke 24:42, what did they give Jesus to eat with His fish?
John 3:13 is a very important verse, proving the deity of Christ.
According to this verse (as Jesus spoke), where is the Son of man?
What happened each year as told in John 5:4?
In John 7:50, what time of day did Nicodemus come to Jesus?
In Acts 8:37, what is the one requirement for baptism?
What did Saul ask Jesus in Acts 9:6?
Write the name of the man mentioned in Acts 15:34.
Study Acts 24:6-8. What would the Jew have done with Paul? What was the
chief captain's name? What did the chief captain command?
Copy Romans 16:24 word for word from the NIV.
First Timothy 3:16 is perhaps the greatest verse in the New Testament
concerning the deity of Christ. In this verse, who was manifested in the
flesh?
In the second part of First Peter 4:14, how do [they] speak of Christ?
And, what do we Christians do?
Who are the three Persons of the Trinity in First John 5:7?
Revelation 1:11 is another very important verse that proves the deity of
Christ. In the first part of this verse Jesus said, "I am the
A______________ and O___________, the _________ and the _______:"
Conclusion: Little space is provided for your answers, but it's much more
than needed. If you followed the instructions above, you not only failed
the test, you receive a big goose egg.
(These are all missing in the NIV.) So now what do you think of your
"accurate, easy to understand, up to date Bible"?
If you would like to improve your score, and in fact score 100%, you can
take this test using the Authorized (King James) Bible.
neal4christ
New Member
I have seen that one a long time ago............And besides, I don't even like the NIV!
Neal
[ December 28, 2002, 10:26 PM: Message edited by: neal4christ ]
Neal
[ December 28, 2002, 10:26 PM: Message edited by: neal4christ ]
neal4christ
New Member
Sorry for the sarcasm......I just get a little tired of the programmed responses from KJVO supporters. I really don't like the NIV much and I do greatly admire the KJV, in fact I personally think it is the most accurate. However, these arguments are disgraceful to those of us who do love the KJV yet realize it is a translation of God's revelation to man.Neal
edit: I took out the snide remark in the previous post, but the apology stands for those who read it.
[ December 28, 2002, 10:27 PM: Message edited by: neal4christ ]
Steve, I disagree with Rex L. Cobb ... The Bible is not the final authority, Jesus Christ is the final authority.
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father, but by me."
--John 14:6
The Holy Bible (regardless of translation) is an indispensible aid in following the way, the truth, and the light ... but it's only a RECORD of God's Word, not the Word itself--that comes from God and it's a living Word. Realize that and some of the anger you appear to harbor over insignificant differences in translations may go away. Look not at every letter and word but stand back and you'll see the wondrous message of salvation, as have so many others over the last 2,000 years--using many Bibles, even including the KJV.
And that's pretty neat.
in the love of Christ,
--Ralph
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father, but by me."
--John 14:6
The Holy Bible (regardless of translation) is an indispensible aid in following the way, the truth, and the light ... but it's only a RECORD of God's Word, not the Word itself--that comes from God and it's a living Word. Realize that and some of the anger you appear to harbor over insignificant differences in translations may go away. Look not at every letter and word but stand back and you'll see the wondrous message of salvation, as have so many others over the last 2,000 years--using many Bibles, even including the KJV.
And that's pretty neat.
in the love of Christ,
--Ralph
S
Steve K.
Guest
If any of you bought any other book or manual and read it and found things missing not just some words but actual numbered verse you would take it back and get your money back.That is what I would suggest you do with something called a bible that does that very thing.As for I have seen that before do you know what a large part repeating something plays in the learning process. Ever watch the same movie more than once? How many times did you see Rudolph the red nosed reindeer growing up? It didn't hurt you and I'll bet you didn't even complain.There are some staunch NIV folk you are sure to hear from if they will stay true to form.
S
Steve K.
Guest
Hey Auothor have you ever read the part that says God holds his word above his name? The only information you have about Jesus comes from the bible. You cannot seperate the two.In the beginning was the word....
Just an observation, Steve, but I personally think the single greatest setback to Christianity in the last 600 years was the introduction of numbered verses. They cause people to get hung (sometimes literally) taking things out of context. Numbered verses take away from the Bible instead of adding.
I have been considering publishing a KJV WITHOUT verse numbers (seriously). Put the text back into proper paragraphs and make give it the continuity you need to read and UNDERSTAND this wonderful message.
--Ralph
[ December 28, 2002, 10:58 PM: Message edited by: Author ]
S
Steve K.
Guest
Hmm Not one jot or one tittle...
line upon line precept upon precept...
don't add to or take away from..
and the list goes on.
I guess from what the two of you say, you and God that is you do not agree on this point. I'll stick with God.
Thanks for the input!
line upon line precept upon precept...
don't add to or take away from..
and the list goes on.
I guess from what the two of you say, you and God that is you do not agree on this point. I'll stick with God.
Thanks for the input!
neal4christ
New Member
Yes, I can see this at work, because most of the KJVO arguments are simply rehashed over and over and eventually some begin to believe it. I believe that is called brainwashing.
No sarcasm intended. Why can't KJV supporters argue on the basis of the translation and its accuracy compared to the new versions and not on emotional arguements. There are many such cases in which I have found the KJV more accurate based on its translation, even in its use of thee's and ye's. But it is still a translation and has some places where it is not the most accurate.Neal
[ December 28, 2002, 10:56 PM: Message edited by: neal4christ ]