Translator Question

[Author]

Originally posted by Steve K.:
Hey Auothor have you ever read the part that says God holds his word above his name? The only information you have about Jesus comes from the bible. You cannot seperate the two.In the beginning was the word....

No, I have a lot of information about Jesus that comes, not just from the Bible, but from great men and women preachers of the Word, and from that still small voice that comes when you are on your knees in prayer, and from the love in my heart that God has given me.

It takes more than just the KJV to receive this greatest of all gifts. If you try to narrow down religion (as so many do--Christian, Moslem, and others) to exact words on a printed page, you get hate and fundamentalism and unChristlike behavior. How many wars have been fought through simple misinterpretation of God's Word? ... Too many!

Listen to the message, receive the love.

My God is a loving God.

--Ralph

 

[neal4christ]

you get hate and fundamentalism

Sorry, but I have the fundamentalism.......but not the hate!

Neal

 

[Author]

Originally posted by Steve K.:
Hmm Not one jot or one tittle...
line upon line precept upon precept...
don't add to or take away from..
and the list goes on.
I guess from what the two of you say, you and God that is you do not agree on this point. I'll stick with God.
Thanks for the input!

I would (and do) read the "jot and tiddle" argument to mean that God keeps wanting us to perfect His record. Now if you speak to me of the KJV, I can tell you that I have personally edited a KJV for publication and it was rife with typos. I CORRECTED all the jots and tittles I could find. This might be the very edition of the KJV you carry to church with you each Sunday. I know it's still being sold. But when you see things like "teh" for "the" then you know it needs correcting.

More recently, I prepared a version of the World English Bible for publication, and I can tell you with no exaggeration that it was cleaner from such obvious mistakes then the venerated KJV I worked on.

As for who God agrees with, I do not know for sure, but I do know He gave me a certain talent in writing and publishing and that I should (and do) use it for the glory of His name. And I also know that I am doing the right thing when I help make Bibles more readable and more available.

And thou can put that in thy pipe in smokest it .

--Ralph

 

[neal4christ]

And thou can put that in thy pipe in smokest it

I believe you meant "And thou canst put that in thy pipe and smokest it"!

Good work in publishing the Bible as you do and putting it in the hands of people! I might not agree with you on all theological issues, but I can't argue with putting God's Word in people's hands.

Neal

[ December 28, 2002, 11:13 PM: Message edited by: neal4christ ]

 

[Author]

Originally posted by neal4christ:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> you get hate and fundamentalism

Sorry, but I have the fundamentalism.......but not the hate!

Neal</font>[/QUOTE]I know, Neal my brother, and I apologize for coming down a little hard on Fundamentalism there. But I'm an old school, traditional, conservative Southern Baptist who does not agree with the theological tack our SBC seminaries have taken of late.

But, that's for another thread, albeit so-called Bible inerracy plays a great part in it, too.

I believe (correct me if I'm mistaken) that you attend Wake Forest. If so, the next time I'm in Raleigh for a book signing (I get down there from time to time), you and Dr. Patterson can take me to the Angus Barn and we can discuss theology. I will agree with ANYONE about ANYTHING for a meal there&lt;g&gt;. ... I might even spring for the check.

God bless,

--Ralph

 

[Author]

Originally posted by neal4christ:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> And thou can put that in thy pipe in smokest it

I believe you meant "And thou canst put that in thy pipe and smokest it"!

... </font>[/QUOTE]I didst, I just mispakest.

--Ralph

 

[neal4christ]

Yes, I am in Wake Forest at Southeastern Seminary. And if you are going to spring for the check, well, I may have to see about budging on some issues as well! Patterson may be another story though! Let me know if you come this way some time. Is there somewhere I can see the books you have put out?

In Christ,
Neal

 

[Author]

Originally posted by neal4christ:
Yes, I am in Wake Forest at Southeastern Seminary. And if you are going to spring for the check, well, I may have to see about budging on some issues as well! Patterson may be another story though! Let me know if you come this way some time. Is there somewhere I can see the books you have put out?

In Christ,
Neal

We may have a lot in common then... for another, I LOVES UPS, they brings us lots of good books. (see, I read people's profiles

)

You can see our main website at abooks.com and my ministry site at TrueBaptist.com.

I do have fun .

--Ralph

[ December 28, 2002, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: Author ]

 

[neal4christ]

I went to your website in your profile and ouch, it hurt!

But that is okay, I am willing to agree to disagree to keep peace, especially if food is involved!

God Bless!

Neal

P.S. Now I will check out your booksite.....I will have to keep an eye out, I sort packages at UPS and see a lot to Ashville!

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by Steve K.:
If any of you bought any other book or manual and read it and found things missing not just some words but actual numbered verse you would take it back and get your money back.That is what I would suggest you do with something called a bible that does that very thing.

Did I miss the part where you showed that these verses are supposed to be there? If you bought a book or manual and read it but found all kinds of things added in, you would probably take it back as well. I am not suggesting you take your KJV back. I am suggesting you not say that things that aren't true.

Hmm Not one jot or one tittle...[/quyote]Your KJV has already failed the test since it has removed all the jots and tittles. Funny that you claim this verse in support of a version that has not one jot or one tittle in it.

don't add to or take away from.

That "add to" part is pretty significant and has been overlooked by many.

I guess from what the two of you say, you and God that is you do not agree on this point. I'll stick with God.

You have not shown one place where God agrees with you yet. Why don't you show us the place where God identifies the KJV as the only word of God? I think it is our side that God agrees with since it is what his word teaches and taught for 3000 years before the KJV ever came along. I would caution you against claiming God for your side without offering a citation from God that supports you. We have offered the citations from God that support us. You have not.

 

[Author]

Originally posted by neal4christ:
I went to your website in your profile and ouch, it hurt!

But that is okay, I am willing to agree to disagree to keep peace, especially if food is involved!

God Bless!

Neal

P.S. Now I will check out your booksite.....I will have to keep an eye out, I sort packages at UPS and see a lot to Ashville!

Thanks, Neal. Well, the True Baptist site is not meant to hurt but to make one think. A lot of us Southern Baptists feel the current SBC leadership (i.e. in the last 20 years) has gone off in the wrong direction. But that's all for another thread.

However, also from a technical viewpoint (and to pull this back to this particular thread) I am very proud of the site ( TrueBaptist.com). It will dynamically generate over NINE BILLION pages, depending on what one asks. It contains NINE complete Bibles and has the facilities for comparing verses from each of these Bibles. Run Joel 2:6 through my Bible comparator and you'll see a really black and white difference between the KJV and other Bibles. ... I also have the complete FOX'S BOOK OF MARTYRS and most of Dr. John T. Christian's two volume A HISTORY OF THE BAPTISTS (still scanning in the second volume). Next I am planning on adding Armitage's massive Baptist history.

And as for UPS, I have a shortrun printer in Charleston I do a lot of business with. My books from there come, via UPS, to West Columbia to Raleigh to Greensboro to Asheville. I tracks them at UPS.com . About 20 boxes to be delivered tomorrow, so if you worked yesterday, you may have seen them come through.

Also, UPS is supposed to be delivering the proof of our World English Bible tomorrow (albeit that did not come through Raleigh). I am really excited about publishing it. I wonder if old Johannes Gutenburg felt this good

. He started out as a mere goldsmith and wound up giving the world TRUE gold, the Holy Bible for all to read. Even the KJV owes its very existance to Gutenberg.

Well, gotta get ready for church.

In the blessings of Christ,

--Ralph

 

[Steve K.]

Women preachers?
You are perfecting the bible?
No reason for this discussion to continue. It does prove something to me though. You mess with God's word and he messes with your head.

 

[Author]

Originally posted by Steve K.:
Women preachers?
You are perfecting the bible?
No reason for this discussion to continue. It does prove something to me though. You mess with God's word and he messes with your head.

Steve, Baptists have had women pastors and deacons since the 18th century here in North Carolina (read the history of the Sandy Creek Association, which later became part of the SBC in the 1840s). And God can use women to preach the wondrous Gospel just as well as men.

Saying women cannot be pastors is simply misinterpreting the Bible. Read Galacians 3:28. We're ALL the same in Christ Jesus.

--Ralph

[ December 29, 2002, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: Author ]

 

[Steve K.]

ditto my above

 

[Steve K.]

Titus 3:10 "A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject;"

 

[Terry_Herrington]

Steve K,
Your posting proves nothing! Just more KJVite nonsense.

 

[Terry_Herrington]

Steve, If I said that you were a fool, would that conform to the rules of the Baptist Board?

Yet you have no problem calling someone a heritc. The only difference is that you hide behind your twisted interperation of Scripture. That seems rather cowardly, don't you think?

[ December 29, 2002, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: Terry Herrington ]

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by Steve K.:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Try Answering These From Your NIV
By Rex L. Cobb

AGAIN, Steve K doesn't (or won't) recognize two very simple facts:

1. finding a problem in one Bible does not mean some other Bible is perfect by default
2. propoganda like that quiz are designed in deception, dealing with only select verses and avoiding others. An HONEST person would immediately recognize that there are many verses that go "the other way", and that avoiding such verses is a deliberate attempt at deception.

Here's a similar "quiz" that a friend of mine made in response to that "quiz", to illustrate those points:

INSTRUCTIONS:
Using the King James Version of the Bible, answer the following questions.

(1) John 14:14 contains important proof of Christ's divinity, since prayer is to be offered to God alone. According to this verse, who is it we are to ask for anything in Jesus' name?

(2) Fill in the blanks from Acts 4:25 -- "You spoke by __________ through the mouth of your servant, our __________ David."

(3) In Acts 16:7, Paul and his companions were not allowed to enter Bythinia. According to the verse, the Spirit of __________ prevented them?

(4) In Romans 1:4, who was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead?

(5) An important verse which teaches that the Holy Spirit is a person (and not a "thing" or an impersonal "it" ) is found in Romans 8:26. Find the personal reference to the Holy Spirit.

(6) Fill in the blanks from Romans 8:34 -- "...who is the one who condemns? __________ __________ is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us."

(7) Titus 2:13 is one of the clearest statements of Christ's divinity in the New Testament. According to this verse, for whose glorious appearing do we wait?

(8) Another important verse demonstrating Christ's divinity is found in 2 Peter 1:1. According to this verse, through whose righteousness have we received our precious faith?

(9) Complete the following phrase from the first part of 1 John 3:1 -- "How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is __________!"

(10) Fill in the missing words from Jude 25 -- "...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through __________ __________ __________ __________ , before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen."

[ December 29, 2002, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: BrianT ]

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by Steve K.:
If any of you bought any other book or manual and read it and found things missing not just some words but actual numbered verse you would take it back and get your money back.

I would also take the book back if someone other than the original author had *added* a bunch of numbered verses. Why assume "deletion" is the only form of corruption????

But verse numbers are not even an issue, the text is. Chapter divisions were added in the 12th century A.D. (and under some protest of "adding" to scripture!), and verse numbers were first used in Stephanus' Greek NT (4th ed.) in 1551. The first translation to use verse numbers was the Geneva Bible. Also of note: sometimes different Bibles (different translations, or different languages) have different chapter/verse divisions, even though the text itself is the same. For example, some Bibles include the "introduction" as each Psalm as verse 1, others start verse 1 after the introduction, resulting in off-by-one when comparing. Off-by-one chapter numbers in the Psalms are also not uncommon.

 

[Author]

Originally posted by Steve K.:
ditto my above

Your argument is wonderfully erudite, Steve, but that's okay my brother.

No, I am not a heretic and my beliefs remain the same as they were when I learned them in a God-loving, God-fearing Southern Baptist Church over 50 years ago.

The KJV is a wonderful Bible, but your advocacy of its continued usage is akin to that of Roman Catholic conservatives wanting to retain the Latin mass. Neither is supported by common sense.

God's message is for understanding and not to be couched in an archaic language that folk can misinterpret and set back God's work. In plain English, that's what we need if English is our tongue). In plain Urdu, if that is the tongue we understand best. In plain Spanish, in plain Greek (as opposed to classic Greek), in plain whatever language you speak.

What could be more simple truth, Steve?

--Ralph

[ December 29, 2002, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: Author ]