Trash Talk

[Crabtownboy]

Jesus was a liberal. He gave out of His own heart. But he wasn't a leftist like the President or those who support him.

He didn't insist on the government doing everything. It was about individuals helping individuals. Your leftist agenda makes the government the provider of all things. You make it sound like you're the super spiritual one who just follows Jesus but you want to make the government force me to do what they want, not out of my own sense of leadership of God. So your leftist agenda makes me pay the government so they can fulfill my responsibility and pay for them to kill the children as well as provide care for all the bureaucrats.

It isn't about who's more spiritual, it is about a Biblical understanding of the role of government and understanding what the Constitution says about the role of government.

I understand your sentiment. However you are comparing two world that cannot honestly be compared. The world of Jesus, ruled by Rome and the society he lived in were so different from ours that they cannot be accurately compared in this way.

As I have said in other posts, if the church were doing its job then the government programs you are speaking of would not be needed.

If a government will not care for its needy then it looses much of its credibility as a caring government IMHO.

 

[just-want-peace]

I must say that I have yet to see that. But I can say that from day one, I have seen how the ones who have been here the longest tend to treat others.

Emphasis mine

Unless you've been a lurker for a couple of years, the above explains your attitude re: Crabby:thumbs:

 

[Tom Bryant]

I understand your sentiment. However you are comparing two world that cannot honestly be compared. The world of Jesus, ruled by Rome and the society he lived in were so different from ours that they cannot be accurately compared in this way.

As I have said in other posts, if the church were doing its job then the government programs you are speaking of would not be needed.

If a government will not care for its needy then it looses much of its credibility as a caring government IMHO.

So really, this is not about following Jesus, since his words are not applicable to today. This is about a political opinion you seek to make spiritually acceptable by bringing in the name of Jesus.

 

[Crabtownboy]

So really, this is not about following Jesus, since his words are not applicable to today. This is about a political opinion you seek to make spiritually acceptable by bringing in the name of Jesus.

I think you know better than that. Yes, we as individuals are responsible for others. See the last judgement in Matthew. But, what is good for individuals is also good for government. After all government, especially a democracy, is made up of individuals. We are not to live split lives. And I am saying that actions of our government, as they do involve individuals is both political and spiritual.

When confronted by a person in need Jesus did not ask,


"Are you politically correct?" i.e. Zacchaeus

"Are you morally pure?" i.e. the woman at the well.

"Are you sinless?" i.e. the woman taken in adultery.

He met their need and, yes, when ask he gave advice; i.e. the rich young ruler for example.

I would much rather our government forgo a few jet fighters or a few tanks and use that money to help people. I do not see anywhere that Jesus praises Rome for their military and their expenditures on controlling Israel or other countries.

Yes, we need the military as a defense. But do we need to outspend the next ten or so countries combined? I don't think so. Remember Eisenhower's warning about the military-industrial complex?

Also, do you agree if churches were doing their job there would not be a need for such large governmental programs?

 

[Tom Bryant]

No, actually i don't know better than that. I only have what you said about following Jesus. Yet according to your own statement, Jesus' words don't apply because of how different the world is.

All your pios questions for Zacheus and the women at the well or taken in adultery are about what we as individuals do, not about what a gov't does. National defense is a logical reason for a national government.

Churches help people. But there are biblical principles about who they should help. If a person refuses to eat, Paul says that they shouldn't get food to eat. Your way rewrds the lazy. God's rewards those who are working. Paul tells the people at Galatia that if a widow needs help it is up to he family to help and not the church.

Your way makes government the source of all good things. That's not what the gov't is for.

And I am going to bow out of this. You are not going to agree and I am certainly not going to agree with your left wing agenda.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

So really, this is not about following Jesus, since his words are not applicable to today. This is about a political opinion you seek to make spiritually acceptable by bringing in the name of Jesus.

It has never been put to better words.

Amen, Tom. Amen.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Another point, C.T.Boy has been telling us what the Bible says isn't true for so long, I doubt he even knows what the Church's job is.

He'll probably answer this as soon as he answers the questions pointed to him in his disgusting "Romney profited off abortion" thread.

 

[Salty]

I
Also, do you agree if churches were doing their job there would not be a need for such large governmental programs?

So if a church is not preaching the Gospel, are you saying the govt should step in and do the job?

If individuals were not taxed so much, many would be able to give more to help.

But here is the problem:
When the govt helps - its a hand out - with no responsibility required of the receiver.

In our church, if a person(s) need help - responsibility involved as well.
For example, there is an individual who needs about $300 for particular and very important action. They do not have the money. The pastor and I are willing to help them out with a portion of the need. However, I sat down with them for an initial counseling session. I told them what we need to do is go over their finances to see where the problem is and to show them how to correct it. Well, they do not want to open their books - and then they turned around and announced they are having a birthday party for their son at a theme park - and with the coupon - it will only be $17 a person- lets see $17 x 5 people + gas, etc - = about half of what they need for this action that must be taken care of.
(should I mention he just got a speeding ticket, mouthed off to the cop- and got a couple of more tickets) Total cost, around $150.
This couple has no responsibility - I have no regret with my now refusal to help them financially. (this is only the tip of the iceberg)

Now on the other side of the story - is a church I attended for a short period of time. The church has a food pantry - supplied by the area food bank. One of the (many) requirements is that any individual receiving food cannot be required to do ANY work including (this is stated on the info sheet) requests such as answering the phone, sweeping the floor, ect.

What, you ask someone to empty a waste basket and you risk your church being deleted from receiving any more food form the food bank - HOGWASH!

One final thing - down in Princeton, WV; the ministers association agreed for different churches to assist in different areas - such as two or three churches (based on location) would have food pantries, another would provide emergency funds for utility cutoff, another church or two would provide clothing ect.
They had found that some families would hit every church with a food closet, ect.
Another-words if the Govt allowed the churches to do the job - the job would get done - and a lot more efficient.

Salty