Treating others on the BB with kindness

[saturneptune]

Plagiarism is something I would never engage in. I hate to add fuel to the fire, particularly when I'm not party to the whole discussion, but that's not what constitutes plagiarism. It is, according to Merriam-Webster, the simple act or the practice of using another person's words or ideas without giving credit to that person; the act of plagiarizing something.

 

[HAMel]

To fully understand the word plagiarism one has to consider the total definition of the word. What does the word really mean? A blanket definition and application of the word itself does not do justice to the issue.

For further clarification just consider the synonyms. Such as, Appropriation, Infringement, Piracy, Counterfeiting; Theft, Borrowing, Cribbing, Passing Off.
(google the underlined and tell me where it came from)

I read the other day where the Obamacare website doesn't work properly.

...you want a link to the above statement?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I posted this a short while ago....thought I should post it again as a reference point to my earlier comment on "Retaliation"

Rejoicing in tribulation
In Martyn Lloyd-Jones book 'STUDIES IN THE SERMON ON THE MOUNT,' he states on the Rejoicing in Tribulation section--chapter 13:

The Christian must not retaliate. It is very difficult not to do so, and more difficult for some of us than others. But our Lord did not do so, and we who are His followers are to be like Him. So we must 'stay the angry word'; we must not reply. To retaliate is just to be like the natural man who always does reply; by nature he has the instinct of self-preservation and the desire to get his own back. But the Christian is different, different in nature; so he must not do that.

Furthermore, not only must he not retaliate; he must also not feel resentment. That is much more difficult. the 1st thing you do is to control your actions, the actual reply. But our Lord is not content with that, because to be truly Christian is not simply to live in a state of repression. You have to go beyond that; you have to get into the state in which you do not even resent persecution. I think you will all know from experience the difference between these two things. we may have come to see long ago that to loose our temper over a thing, or to manifest annoyance, is dishonoring our Lord. But we still may feel it, and fill it intensely, and be hurt about it and resent it bitterly. Now the Christian teaching is that we must get beyond that.

 

[HAMel]

EW&F, may I direct you toward the following. Regarding Martyn Lloyd-Jones, at the end of this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyn_Lloyd-Jones the following is provided. As a side line, I'm sorry but I just seem to see where this guy is on the level.

Under the paragraph entitled,

Charismatic Movement

Martyn Lloyd-Jones has admirers from many different denominations in the Christian Church today. One much-discussed aspect of his legacy is his relationship to the Charismatic Movement. Respected by leaders of many churches associated with this movement, although not directly associated with them, he did teach the Baptism with the Holy Spirit as a distinct experience rather than conversion and the regeneration of the Holy Spirit. Indeed, towards the end of his life he urged his listeners to actively seek an experience of the Holy Spirit. For instance, in his exposition of Ephesians 6:10–13, published in 1976, he says:

"Do you know anything of this fire? If you do not, confess it to God and acknowledge it. Repent, and ask Him to send the Spirit and His love into you until you are melted and moved, until you are filled with his love divine, and know His love to you, and rejoice in it as his child, and look forward to the hope of the coming glory. 'Quench not the Spirit', but rather 'be filled with the Spirit' and 'rejoice in Christ Jesus'."

Also, may I provide the following.

From Rippon, in part:

"I guess you never went to high school? Didn't you get warned by teachers about plagiarism back then? It has nothing to do with making money. One would be guilty of it without making a profit at all."
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=90163&page=2

then,

"You big bully! How dare you intimidate him with facts! You and I should let him continue on his way with his convoluted meaning of what constitutes plagiarism." http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=90163&page=2

...and I retaliate?

To be honest with you..., if some so desire to accuse me of plagiarism, theft, guilty of retaliation, of being mean and hateful and otherwise should not contribute to this forum..., so be it. You are entitled to your opinion(s).

As for me, I'll sleep quite well tonight, thank you.

 

[preacher4truth]

MLJ meant nothing by way of endorsement of what the Charismatics are doing today. His take on this filling and seeking it went more along the lines of the experiences of some greatly used evangelists, Whitefield for example. Some want to broad brush him as if he supports the antics of Hinn, Savelle, Myer, Brown, Popoff and others. Obviously these are clueless to what MLJ intended.

 

[preacher4truth]

EW&F, may I direct you toward the following. Regarding Martyn Lloyd-Jones, at the end of this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyn_Lloyd-Jones the following is provided. As a side line, I'm sorry but I just seem to see where this guy is on the level.

I think you meant you DON'T see where this guy is on the level. If so, you don't know him very well at all.

Under the paragraph entitled,

Charismatic Movement

Martyn Lloyd-Jones has admirers from many different denominations in the Christian Church today. One much-discussed aspect of his legacy is his relationship to the Charismatic Movement. Respected by leaders of many churches associated with this movement, although not directly associated with them, he did teach the Baptism with the Holy Spirit as a distinct experience rather than conversion and the regeneration of the Holy Spirit. Indeed, towards the end of his life he urged his listeners to actively seek an experience of the Holy Spirit. For instance, in his exposition of Ephesians 6:10–13, published in 1976, he says:

"Do you know anything of this fire? If you do not, confess it to God and acknowledge it. Repent, and ask Him to send the Spirit and His love into you until you are melted and moved, until you are filled with his love divine, and know His love to you, and rejoice in it as his child, and look forward to the hope of the coming glory. 'Quench not the Spirit', but rather 'be filled with the Spirit' and 'rejoice in Christ Jesus'."

Excellent statement by MLJ and he is correct. :thumbsup: :wavey:

Also, may I provide the following.

From Rippon, in part:

"I guess you never went to high school? Didn't you get warned by teachers about plagiarism back then? It has nothing to do with making money. One would be guilty of it without making a profit at all."
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=90163&page=2

then,

"You big bully! How dare you intimidate him with facts! You and I should let him continue on his way with his convoluted meaning of what constitutes plagiarism." http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=90163&page=2

...and I retaliate?

Yes, you do, and you've attempted to do so again here as well. You're holding a grudge for being correctly rebuked concerning the truth about plagiarism.

To be honest with you..., if some so desire to accuse me of plagiarism, theft, guilty of retaliation, of being mean and hateful and otherwise should not contribute to this forum..., so be it. You are entitled to your opinion(s).

As for me, I'll sleep quite well tonight, thank you.

Actually Rippon was correct in his assessment of plagiarism. It doesn't have to involve money. At times it is used to garner credibility one does not possess which is why folks do it in forums.

You've missed the whole point of the OP, why not stick to it and lose your grudges, stop taking people out of context and denigrating them, accept that Rippon is correct and man up?

 

[HAMel]

MLJ meant nothing by way of endorsement of what the Charismatics are doing today.

preacher4truth, with all due respect, how do we know this?

Have you a link to that position? Is this merely your opinion?

The question(s) above are but an example of how silly this nonsense becomes. Some of the exchanges regarding this issue are but, as recorded in the KJV of the Bible, at, 2 Timothy 2:16 - "But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness."

Standing up for ones self is not retaliation.

I can only "assume" that what EW&F posted regarding MLJ was for my benefit. If not, then I will stand corrected.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

MLJ meant nothing by way of endorsement of what the Charismatics are doing today. His take on this filling and seeking it went more along the lines of the experiences of some greatly used evangelists, Whitefield for example. Some want to broad brush him as if he supports the antics of Hinn, Savelle, Myer, Brown, Popoff and others. Obviously these are clueless to what MLJ intended.

EXACTLY CORRECT!:thumbs: But if you really want to understand the mans position, its all there in the book "JOY UNSPEAKABLE" ....then you can take it, or leave it in ML-J true professed context. And thanks for the clarification Preacher 4 Truth. I know you have studied the book as well as the man. NOTE: nothing was said by Jones that wasn't held up to the light of scripture.

 

[HAMel]

"...he did teach the Baptism with the Holy Spirit as a distinct experience rather than conversion and the regeneration of the Holy Spirit."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyn_Lloyd-Jones

So I guess my current believe that coming to Jesus as I did needs to be followed up with the Baptism with/of the Holy Spirit?

I wonder if that one thief hanging on the Cross with Jesus that day was able to be Baptised as such before he died?

WOULD A MODERATOR PLEASE CLOSE THIS THREAD???

IT'S GETTING SILLIER BY THE MINUTE.

 

[preacher4truth]

"...he did teach the Baptism with the Holy Spirit as a distinct experience rather than conversion and the regeneration of the Holy Spirit."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyn_Lloyd-Jones

So I guess my current believe that coming to Jesus as I did needs to be followed up with the Baptism with/of the Holy Spirit?

I wonder if that one thief hanging on the Cross with Jesus that day was able to be Baptised as such before he died?

WOULD A MODERATOR PLEASE CLOSE THIS THREAD???

IT'S GETTING SILLIER BY THE MINUTE.

I wish you'd act a little more of age because the only silly behavior here is coming from you.

Hamel, it is obvious you do not know what MLJ was alluding to when he spoke and taught on this issue. You're taking what he said out of context and YOU ALONE are applying it to the entire Charismatic mess. It has nothing to do with the charismatic nonsense you see today and to which you are attempting to make an unfounded correlation.

And let's put an end to derailing here. Go start another thread with your attack on MLJ and this blessing of the Spirit.

As to the OP, seriously you should treat those who have correctly instructed you and shown you your error with the kindness and respect that the OP calls for instead of attempting to dig up dirt on them and on MLJ.

 

[preacher4truth]

MLJ meant nothing by way of endorsement of what the Charismatics are doing today.

preacher4truth, with all due respect, how do we know this?

Have you a link to that position? Is this merely your opinion?

The question(s) above are but an example of how silly this nonsense becomes. Some of the exchanges regarding this issue are but, as recorded in the KJV of the Bible, at, 2 Timothy 2:16 - "But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness."

Standing up for ones self is not retaliation.

I can only "assume" that what EW&F posted regarding MLJ was for my benefit. If not, then I will stand corrected.

So now you're actually asking? Your asserting that you could be incorrect? That is refreshing, because frankly you are incorrect concerning MLJ.

Certainly you are more wise than to take an excerpt from wikipedia and run with it, misapply it, and make unfounded uneducated conclusions? You know that is most imprudent of you, correct? I suggest you refer to EWF's post addressed to me above and read the title he suggests.

 

[HAMel]

So now you're actually asking? Your asserting that you could be incorrect? That is refreshing, because frankly you are incorrect concerning MLJ.

Certainly you are more wise than to take an excerpt from wikipedia and run with it, misapply it, and make unfounded uneducated conclusions? You know that is most imprudent of you, correct? I suggest you refer to EWF's post addressed to me above and read the title he suggests.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion..., including me. Hey..., how about that?

In fact, I've never heard of this MLJ until he and the associated link was provided to create a sidebar.

Now, I asked for your link(s). Have you any?

 

[preacher4truth]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion..., including me. Hey..., how about that?

You've made baseless conclusions on MLJ.

And you show why here:

In fact, I've never heard of this MLJ until he and the associated link was provided to create a sidebar.

Wisdom asks you to look well to your way before making erroneous judgments and conclusions as you most unwisely have up to this point.

Other than that I don't know how you could have never heard of the man who has made a such a serious positive impact on the church and is widely known and held in very high repute by many preachers today. He is spoken of often and referred to often. You need to get outside of your own county for a bit! :love2:

Now, I asked for your link(s). Have you any?

Certainly. Got to www.mljtrust.org and you can hear many sermons of his there.

 

[HAMel]

I asked you on a previous post,

preacher4truth, with all due respect, how do we know this?

Have you a link to that position? Is this merely your opinion?

You provided a link to, www.mljtrust.org

Obviously, those who hold MLJ in high regard are going to support him and his teaching. That's a given. I see no where in my KJV of the Bible that I need to be baptized with the Holy Spirit. Makes no difference how this is being applied today in those churches. Perhaps his comments were taken out of context by many but he did infer such. I can't help that.

With a little searching I could provide you with links those who hold the Mormon teachings in high regard. So what have you established here?

Bottom line is your opinion is your opinion. My opinion is my opinion. Why are you right and I am wrong?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Again have the time to have read JOY UNSPEAKABLE and Martyn Lloyd Jones background.....in fact studied his sermons adequately prior to your commentaries above?

 

[preacher4truth]

I asked you on a previous post,

preacher4truth, with all due respect, how do we know this?

Have you a link to that position? Is this merely your opinion?

You provided a link to, www.mljtrust.org

This is the attitude I expected from you in giving what you asked for. It's typical unfortunately.

Obviously, those who hold MLJ in high regard are going to support him and his teaching. That's a given.

He is held in high regard due to his teaching, and he's earned it. You still continue to sleight and denigrate subtly and not so subtly. What I see here is a presupposed bias against the man, conclusions upon his person having never heard nor listened to him.

I see no where in my KJV...

Then perhaps listen to what he says on the subject and you will see. You, as you've stated, are totally clueless to anything of what he has said or even as to who he is, and it is highly doubtful given what he HAS said, and what YOU are concluding, that you have much or any grasp on this teaching as you are claiming. Frankly you don't.

...of the Bible that I need to be baptized with the Holy Spirit.

Again you no nothing of the doctrine as you have not examined it putting your presuppositions to the wayside, nor do you know much of the transformation of many evangelists who have in fact experienced this including the apostles.

Makes no difference how this is being applied today in those churches. Perhaps his comments were taken out of context by many but he did infer such. I can't help that.

Sorry, but you're the only person inferring things on him and his acceptance of 'charismatic' theology. You most unwisely assert and conclude things upon a man you've never heard.

With a little searching I could provide you with links those who hold the Mormon teachings in high regard. So what have you established here?

Apples and oranges. Why not stick to the subject that you know nothing about and see what it says first instead of chasing rabbits? What you state above proves nothing whatsoever accept that you are in ignorance in what you speak and in your conclusions. And start another thread?

Bottom line is your opinion is your opinion. My opinion is my opinion. Why are you right and I am wrong?

Mine isn't opinion, I know what he said and what he means and where he stood, so ti's actually objective. Your's is all baseless accusations, unfounded denigrations and presuppositions, things which those in the church practice upon others, and to which helps buffer the world's opinion that the 'church' is ignorant, self-righteous, and condemnatory of things she knows not.

 

[Deacon]

I tend to classify those who post here in a number of different ways
Everyone (even me) falls into one of these categories.

1. Unknowledgeable, untaught, ignorant – provides a good teaching opportunity
2. Educated, questioning and open to new ideas - provides a rewarding learning and teaching opportunity
3. Educated in aberrant doctrine, unwilling to change – difficult person, provides a complex teaching opportunity
4. Educated in aberrant doctrine, unwilling to change, ignores criticism, illogical, teaches and encourages aberrant doctrine – frustrating!

It’s hard to communicate ideas with someone who doesn’t listen or respond.

My posts become increasingly aggressive as I begin to identify the person posting as being lower on the above list.

I have to be continually vigilant and make sure I respect those who are willing to learn and not discourage them in the process... and I'm not always as attentive or watchful with my posts as I should be.

At the same time there are those that need to be dealt with strongly and aggressively – as a wakeup call.
... but I often try to quickly edit strongly critical posts and try and soften my words a bit – because they reveal more about my heart than they teach the person who I’m writing to.

Rob

 

[Yeshua1]

I tend to classify those who post here in a number of different ways
Everyone (even me) falls into one of these categories.

1. Unknowledgeable, untaught, ignorant – provides a good teaching opportunity
2. Educated, questioning and open to new ideas - provides a rewarding learning and teaching opportunity
3. Educated in aberrant doctrine, unwilling to change – difficult person, provides a complex teaching opportunity
4. Educated in aberrant doctrine, unwilling to change, ignores criticism, illogical, teaches and encourages aberrant doctrine – frustrating!

It’s hard to communicate ideas with someone who doesn’t listen or respond.

My posts become increasingly aggressive as I begin to identify the person posting as being lower on the above list.

I have to be continually vigilant and make sure I respect those who are willing to learn and not discourage them in the process... and I'm not always as attentive or watchful with my posts as I should be.

At the same time there are those that need to be dealt with strongly and aggressively – as a wakeup call.
... but I often try to quickly edit strongly critical posts and try and soften my words a bit – because they reveal more about my heart than they teach the person who I’m writing to.

Rob

Also to a degree, it seems ALL of us here on the BB have a "catch word' that if we don't watch out gets us going!

van sees calvinist, sees Red
Some see arminian, non cal, gets that "rightious anger" boiling!
Some see Dispy, here they go!
or charasmatic...

We all have our "problem areas!"

Think trick is to actually want to carry on a discourse, and thoguh not agreeing, at least willing to listen and rrespond to what the other has to say, who knows, maybe we don't have theology down as well as jesus and His Apsotles, and still can learn!

 

[evenifigoalone]

For me it's things I see as legalism that have a very real possibility of being taken too seriously by me so I can get a little heated on those subjects if I'm not careful.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I tend to classify those who post here in a number of different ways
Everyone (even me) falls into one of these categories.

1. Unknowledgeable, untaught, ignorant – provides a good teaching opportunity
2. Educated, questioning and open to new ideas - provides a rewarding learning and teaching opportunity
3. Educated in aberrant doctrine, unwilling to change – difficult person, provides a complex teaching opportunity
4. Educated in aberrant doctrine, unwilling to change, ignores criticism, illogical, teaches and encourages aberrant doctrine – frustrating!

It’s hard to communicate ideas with someone who doesn’t listen or respond.

My posts become increasingly aggressive as I begin to identify the person posting as being lower on the above list.

I have to be continually vigilant and make sure I respect those who are willing to learn and not discourage them in the process... and I'm not always as attentive or watchful with my posts as I should be.

At the same time there are those that need to be dealt with strongly and aggressively – as a wakeup call.
... but I often try to quickly edit strongly critical posts and try and soften my words a bit – because they reveal more about my heart than they teach the person who I’m writing to.

Rob

Now I'm curious....where am I on that list?