Tree of Life

[webdog]

My dad and I were discussing the Tree of Life yesterday. He believes Adam and Eve never ate from the Tree of Life prior to eating of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil. I countered with the fact God said they could eat of any tree in the garden except the Tree of Knowledge. He alluded to the fact if they had eaten of the Tree of Life prior, there would have been no fall. I then countered that the Tree of Life seems to be physical in nature, as believer have eternal, spiritual life upon faith in Christ.

Thoughts?

 

[Jedi Knight]

Well one thing I notice is that God kicked them out so that they could not eat it and live forever. I think the tree of life had a sustaining effect but after they ate the other "knowledge of good and evil" they would have live on in an eternal fallen state if they ate from the tree of Life afterwords. My 2 Cents :type:

 

[Mexdeaf]

Well one thing I notice is that God kicked them out so that they could not eat it and live forever. I think the tree of life had a sustaining effect but after they ate the other "knowledge of good and evil" they would have live on in an eternal fallen state if they ate from the tree of Life afterwords. My 2 Cents :type:

I'll cast in my two with yours- now we have 4 cents

 

[webdog]

Was the Tree of Life something that was eaten from prior to the fall?

 

[Alcott]

Did the Tree of Life itself have eternal life, or did its fruit have seeds and thus there are generations of Trees of Lives(?)?

 

[ituttut]

Listen to you Dad. That is what His Word, the Bible says.

But I disagree they would not fall. How awful to live a life, without death. No resurrection, and no rapture.

 

[Grasshopper]

My dad and I were discussing the Tree of Life yesterday. He believes Adam and Eve never ate from the Tree of Life prior to eating of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil.

If the Tree of Life gave physical immortality and they did not eat of it then they were not physically immortal. If not, then when Adam sinned physical death was not a result since they had no immortality to begin with.

Now, what if the Tree of Life gave the soul immortality? If they did not eat of it then they would not have an immortal soul which could not be burned in Hell for eternity. In that case, casting them out of the Garden was an act of Grace not punishment.

Alot of Doctrines rise or fall on what happened there that day.

I countered with the fact God said they could eat of any tree in the garden except the Tree of Knowledge. He alluded to the fact if they had eaten of the Tree of Life prior, there would have been no fall. I then countered that the Tree of Life seems to be physical in nature, as believer have eternal, spiritual life upon faith in Christ.

Thoughts?

For me the question is did the Tree of Life give physical immortality or soul immortality.

If it gave physical immortality isn't living in fallen world still better than hell? Or did it give the soul immortality?

1Co 15:21 For since death is through man, the resurrection of the dead also is through a Man.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive.


Fascinating subject with deep consequences.

 

[LeBuick]

Did the Tree of Life itself have eternal life, or did its fruit have seeds and thus there are generations of Trees of Lives(?)?

I think you're on to something here...

Was there sin in the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil or was the disobedience the sin?

Is life in the tree or is life in eating from the tree as commanded?

Is Christ the tree of life? If so then I don't believe they partook before the fall since it was the fall that gave his mission purpose.

 

[webdog]

Listen to you Dad. That is what His Word, the Bible says.

But I disagree they would not fall. How awful to live a life, without death. No resurrection, and no rapture.

Where does it say they never ate from the Tree of Life prior to eating from the Tree of Knowledge? God's command was to eat from any tree but the Tree of Knowledge.

 

[Allan]

Where does it say they never ate from the Tree of Life prior to eating from the Tree of Knowledge? God's command was to eat from any tree but the Tree of Knowledge.

How are we to know they even did
There were many trees around bearing good fruit, not to mention it is most probable they were only in the garden a short time period - maybe a couple days but no more than 9 months. It seems rather odd though doesn't it, for God to make this statement:

Gen 3:22b - ...Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—”

Now if eating from the tree will make them live forever; Can we state they have 'already' eaten from it??

Not if God meant what He said.

But what is really odd is that eating of it will cause them to live forever. Now if it means eternity, that WOULD be something now wouldn't it But I think here the term means 'long duration' or 'long life'. I mean without eatint it they lived 800 to 900 or so years before they died and look at the heart-break and sorrow they had and saw during that time. Can you imagine a life that you could never escape such horrors time on end without end?

Secondly I think it was put into man to desire longevity in life but if one could keep his loved ones from death, how would Christ be able to die if they all would seek to keep all they loved from death - thus giving infant children this so death would not come to them and take them away. All the other horrors endured would be bad enough but if you could hold on to your children and know that you parents, wife, grandparents, ect... that might make those things somewhat more bearable, if they would never had to die. I think that reality would be to tempting for them and it would have hindered God's plan which involved and indeed necessitated such hardship and love and death.

Just my nickle tossed into the bucket :thumbs:

 

[ituttut]

You nickle hit the target

Not if God meant what He said.

Amen Allen.
That's the crux of the whole argument, for this subject, or for any others. Do we believe God?

Another aspect as we delve into this matter is coming to the realization that God from the beginning knew the outcome. Notice it was Satan who enticed the woman, and not Adam. I say God knew this.

Then we look at what Satan said, "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2. And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3. But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat", (KJV) Geneses 3:1-6.

Satan deceived the woman with the statement "Ye shall not surely die." He drew her attention to One Tree in the Midst of the Garden. He didn't want her to focus on the Tree of Life, for he, Lucifer had a plan, but didn't know what God knew. This was Satan's first mistake. God set him up in order that Lucifer could believe he had a shot at becoming as God, but could not just become equal with God, but also be far above him, having God under his feet.

This is the reason the third of the angels in heaven believed him. He is brilliant, powerful, so attractive, and what PIPES he has to make such beautiful music. It is just so easy to LOVE this guy. A good lesson here is if Satan could sway an untold, enormous amount of angels to believe, we don't stand a chance against him, unless we believe God the Word, Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God. And something else we should take note of, And Believe, is Damascus Road did happen, and we have further revelations of God, that He had hid from Man (angels are considered man, as they are also called sons of God). God defeated this Upstart at his own game at the Cross by the Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. The Life is in the Blood, and is seeing to it that we that believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for our Salvation eat of that other Tree in the Garden, the Tree of Life. God deceived the deceiver.

 

[webdog]

How are we to know they even did
There were many trees around bearing good fruit, not to mention it is most probable they were only in the garden a short time period - maybe a couple days but no more than 9 months.

We don't know for certain they did or didn't, but we do know for certain they were permitted to (pre-fall). There was only one tree they were commanded not to eat of...and they did.

Now if eating from the tree will make them live forever; Can we state they have 'already' eaten from it??

Not if God meant what He said.

...and I'll counter that with 'was it physical life or spiritual'? If God was speaking of spiritual life in Gen. 3:22, then Christ and the cross were unnecessary, as partaking of the TOL would be all that is necessary. Remember, God said if they did eat of it in their fallen state, they would still live forever, so either that is another dispensation of salvation, or it is referring to the physical. If it is speaking of physical life, that would make better sense. Also, it doesn't state eating of the tree only once will give eternal life, only that eating of it gives eternal life. Since the TOL exists today, and we will be eating from it in the New Jerusalem, it is quite possible this may be the means God uses to provide eternal, physical life. We don't know. Maybe eating it's fruit once yearly, once a century, or once in a millenia will sustain eternal life. The fact it was in the Garden to begin with, and knowing man was created to live eternally initially would lend to this notion.

 

[Mexdeaf]

Just my nickle tossed into the bucket :thumbs:

Now we're up to $.09!

Seriously- a fascinating series of questions.

 

[just-want-peace]

Seems pretty clear if you just believe God! Genesis 3:22

KJ: -- And now, LEST he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever,

NIV: -- He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

NAS: -- and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"

NLT: -- What if they reach out, take fruit from the tree of life, and eat it? Then they will live forever!”

 

[LeBuick]

Seems pretty clear if you just believe God! Genesis 3:22

KJ: -- And now, LEST he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever,

NIV: -- He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

NAS: -- and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"

NLT: -- What if they reach out, take fruit from the tree of life, and eat it? Then they will live forever!”

Question... Do you believe it's like taking the medicine before you get the illness?

 

[webdog]

Seems pretty clear if you just believe God! Genesis 3:22

KJ: -- And now, LEST he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever,

NIV: -- He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

NAS: -- and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"

NLT: -- What if they reach out, take fruit from the tree of life, and eat it? Then they will live forever!”

I believe God...but what you posted makes nothing clear.

 

[Marcia]

I wrote an article on they imagery of trees in the Bible for a seminary class and then adapted it for my site. Here is an excerpt relevant to the discussion:

Eve's name is given in the biblical account at a point right between God's verdict for man's sin and man's banishment from the Garden and the tree of life. This is interesting in light of the fact that it is the woman whom the serpent approached and tempted, it is the woman who first ate the fruit from the forbidden tree (Genesis 3:6), and it is the woman who was named as the "mother of the living." God's promise of redemption is given to the couple in verse 15; it is through the woman's "seed" that this redemption will come, thus making her name "mother of the living" especially noteworthy. Man has been banished from the Garden and lost access to the tree of life, but the woman, who played a major part in this eviction, will be the very vehicle for access back to life and fellowship with God through the future birth of the Redeemer. A tree of life is denied, but promise of future redemption will come through the mother of "all the living."

Commentators see the tree of life as access to eternal life, and some believe that forbidding Adam and Eve from eating from the tree of life after the fall was an act of mercy, because otherwise, they would have been had an endless physical life in a fallen world; also, this represents losing perfection through sin and having to experience death (Trent C. Butler, ed. Holman Bible Dictionary [Nashville: Holman Bible Publishers, 1991], 1367; Ryken, 889). Scripture compares a tree of life to wisdom in Proverbs 3:18, to the fruit of the righteous in Proverbs 11:30, to hope fulfilled in Proverbs 13:12, and to a soothing tongue in Proverbs 15:4, all showing that life comes from God and through a right relationship with him. Additionally, one scholar states that some believe that the golden lampstand in the Tabernacle in Exodus 25:34 represented the tree of life (Ryken, 890).

http://www.christiananswersforthenewage.org/Articles_Trees1.html

 

[just-want-peace]

LeBuick sez:

Question... Do you believe it's like taking the medicine before you get the illness?

Sorry LB; I have no idea what you are talking about!?

webdog sez:

I believe God...but what you posted makes nothing clear.

Unless I misread your OP, you are asking 2 questions:
1 Did they eat of the tree of life before eating of the tree of knowledge? and
2 Was the tree of life giving eternal life physically or spiritually?

1 The quoted scripture, (AFTER the "apple" episode), makes it plain that they had NOT yet partook of the life tree;

2 It also strongly implies that, should they partake of the tree after eating the "apple", that they would live forever, and now being fallen creatures, that that would not be a desirable outcome. This had to be a "PHYSICAL FOREVER", because they never ate, but, saved or unsaved, the spirit lives forever.

Hope this clears up what I was saying, but if those were not your questions, then I apologize and you can just disregard my post!

 

[Grasshopper]

1 The quoted scripture, (AFTER the "apple" episode), makes it plain that they had NOT yet partook of the life tree

I agree.

2 It also strongly implies that, should they partake of the tree after eating the "apple", that they would live forever, and now being fallen creatures, that that would not be a desirable outcome. This had to be a "PHYSICAL FOREVER", because they never ate, but, saved or unsaved, the spirit lives forever.

Then doesn't that mean physical death was natural and not caused by the fall?


Which brings us to I Cor. 15 and the "death" that was brought about by Adam. If it wasn't physical then it must be spiritual. What does that do to the Doctrine of physical resurrection?

 

[just-want-peace]

Grasshopper sez:

Then doesn't that mean physical death was natural and not caused by the fall?


Which brings us to I Cor. 15 and the "death" that was brought about by Adam. If it wasn't physical then it must be spiritual. What does that do to the Doctrine of physical resurrection?

Good question!

Since we aren't given any info re this, my assumption, and just mine alone - no scripture to verify/denounce - is that one nibble of the fruit of the tree of life would have yielded permanent results just as the "apple nibble" of the tree of knowledge did.

Another good question!

Again, my assumption, is that physical death was via Adam by being denied access to the tree of life, AND spiritual death was the inevitable result of the disobedience of Adam against God -- as was prescribed for satan & his cronies.

All speculation granted, but to me it at least offers some explanation, even if incomplete.