Trinity Is At It Again!

[Martin]

SURPRISE, SURPRISE, SURPRISE, SURPRISE...

Trinity College of the Bible and Seminary are at it again. Now our friends at Trinity claim that a student can enroll in their school and earn certain degrees from the University of Wales.
-------------------------------------
They say:

What Does Validation of the Trinity B.A. and M.A. Degrees Mean to You?




Effective September 14, 2007, Trinity became the only Educational Institution in the U.S.A. where you can complete Trinity courses and be awarded either a Trinity Degree, or a University of Wales Degree.
Only at Trinity do you have the opportunity to earn a University of Wales Degree, with a University of Wales Transcript (subject to final approval).
The University of Wales was founded by Royal Charter in 1893. Annually, it awards around 15,000 initial degrees and more than 4,000 higher degrees, making it the second largest degree-awarding body in the United Kingdom.

-From Here
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Notice several things:

1. This is all "subject to final approval". What this means is that they are promoting a program that has not gained final approval. I wonder why they are doing this. What happens to the students who enroll in this program if the program does not gain final approval?

2. How will American Universities and employers view such an agreement?

3. How does America's accrediting bodies deal with such an agreement? Do they acknowledge it?

4. Why does Trinity keep playing these games? Why not just get back on track for real accreditation or drop the accreditation claims all together?

 

[European]

accreditation

Hi Martin,

I saw that you have a small battle with this school, it changed to many times it's accredition.

But I checked, and believe me, that University of Wales, recognize full 3 bachelors and 3 masters from Trinity.

Here in Europe, is different with accreditation, ussual is coming from Minister of Education (from a guvernamental agency).

And University of Wales is fully accredited worldwide.

That validation system, it means that every student will be enroled with both schools (main one and University of Wales) and to the end, the degree is coming with University of Wales name.

I saw a degree like this from Spurgeon's College, London (the famous college start by Spurgeon's have the same accreditation from University of Wales).

The history of this school is strange for me, with too many changes about accredition.
But I need to recognize, that right now they are full acredited from University of Wales.

European (from the haert of Transylvania :laugh

 

[Broadus]

Martin,

Why not contact the University of Wales for clarification? When Trinity had a similar relationship with the University of Liverpool, I asked Dr. Daniel Block, then professor of OT at SBTS and a Liverpool DPhil alum, about it. He shook his head and said that he had written a protest to the head of Liverpool. Soon thereafter, that relationship was terminated.

Trinity does not seek legitimate accreditation because they cannot qualify for it. Their required work is substandard. Their's is a money-making venture. As long as there are students who either do not investigate the school or care only for a sheet of official-looking paper declaring them to be a graduate, they will continue their profitable enterprise.

Bill

 

[European]

again Trinity

http://www.wales.ac.uk/defaultpage.asp?page=E7052&Country=USA&inst=TTS

Here University of Wales said about Trinity that is full validated ..

I'm not an advocate for Trinity, few years ago I was already to start a program with them, but because of informations from this forum, I did other courses.

I don't know what standards are used by University of Wales and what is the quality of Trinity classes right now, but for me is very clear that Trinity have a validation from this University.

European.

 

[Martin]

Trinity does not seek legitimate accreditation because they cannot qualify for it.

==Right, and I wonder how American seminaries will deal with this attempt by Trinity to "get around system". It could hurt Americans who graduate from the University of Wales with the degrees that Trinity is offering. I am sure they will be asked, where did you do your coursework?

Their required work is substandard. Their's is a money-making venture.

==Yep, and that is why they backed away from regional accreditation. Its much easier to offer substandard PhDs for large sums of money than it is to only be able to offer DMins that are quality.

I don't believe Trinity to be a Christian institution.

 

[Martin]

but for me is very clear that Trinity have a validation from this University.

==Trinity is doing nothing but trying to get around the system in America. They can't measure up in America, so they go over seas looking for a short-cut. Mark my word, this "deal" with Wales will not last if it is ever finally approved. Keep in mind Trinity has stated that the deal is still subject to final approval. Wales will figure out that Trinity is just using them to get around the system in America and that partnering with Trinity will only hurt their academic reputation in America. When they realize this the deal will be off and who knows how many students will be left out in the cold with an expensive, unaccredited, substandard, "graduate degree". I am not in favor of big government, but I do wish our government would shut schools like Trinity down.

 

[TCGreek]

==Trinity is doing nothing but trying to get around the system in America. They can't measure up in America, so they go over seas looking for a short-cut. Mark my word, this "deal" with Wales will not last if it is ever finally approved. Keep in mind Trinity has stated that the deal is still subject to final approval. Wales will figure out that Trinity is just using them to get around the system in America and that partnering with Trinity will only hurt their academic reputation in America. When they realize this the deal will be off and who knows how many students will be left out in the cold with an expensive, unaccredited, substandard, "graduate degree". I am not in favor of big government, but I do wish our government would shut schools like Trinity down.

Well put. :thumbs:

 

[European]

for Martin

Martin,

Do you know any Master degree in Church History by distance education?

 

[Bearhouse]

So, in what way is Trinity's course work substandard? I need to hear from someone who can compare Trinity with other schools and give me specific examples. I have heard someone say Trinity's doctoral programs are not as rigorous as accredited schools'. Trinity, for instance, does not require biblical languages for its doctoral degrees. What are some of the other areas where Triniy has problems in terms of its academics? How about MA programs? Why are Trinity's MA programs inferior to other schools? I wish Trinity did not spin its accreditation status. But still, I'm not really sure if the school's courses are all that bad.

 

[PatsFan]

Trinity (Newburgh)

I'd be more concerned if the University of Wales accredited Trinity's Ph.D program--which they don't. Despite its shady marketing practices its faculty and graduate programs really seem adequate IMHO.

Tom

 

[TCGreek]

Here's a question that I have: Why is a school like the U of Phoenix with substandard level accredited but a school like Trinity, which maybe on the same level, having a hard time in achieving accreditation?

 

[paidagogos]

Initial observations

SURPRISE, SURPRISE, SURPRISE, SURPRISE...

Trinity College of the Bible and Seminary are at it again. Now our friends at Trinity claim that a student can enroll in their school and earn certain degrees from the University of Wales.
-------------------------------------
They say:

What Does Validation of the Trinity B.A. and M.A. Degrees Mean to You?




Effective September 14, 2007, Trinity became the only Educational Institution in the U.S.A. where you can complete Trinity courses and be awarded either a Trinity Degree, or a University of Wales Degree.
Only at Trinity do you have the opportunity to earn a University of Wales Degree, with a University of Wales Transcript (subject to final approval).
The University of Wales was founded by Royal Charter in 1893. Annually, it awards around 15,000 initial degrees and more than 4,000 higher degrees, making it the second largest degree-awarding body in the United Kingdom.

-From Here
-------------------------------------

Notice several things:

1. This is all "subject to final approval". What this means is that they are promoting a program that has not gained final approval. I wonder why they are doing this. What happens to the students who enroll in this program if the program does not gain final approval?

2. How will American Universities and employers view such an agreement?

3. How does America's accrediting bodies deal with such an agreement? Do they acknowledge it?

4. Why does Trinity keep playing these games? Why not just get back on track for real accreditation or drop the accreditation claims all together?

Whereas I cannot claim extensive knowledge of this new relationship and what it means, I do know something of Trinity and the University of Wales. Spurgeon College of London did a similar thing with a graduate degree in Baptist history but I think the program has been discontinued.

Here are just a few of my thoughts on this new claim by Trinity:

1. The awarding of degrees by a chartered university for work completed at another institution is a time-honored and legitimate process in the European system but it may be stretching to the breaking point across the Atlantic. How much does the University of Wales really know about Trinity? After all, a little can be made to look like a whole lot on paper. At a distance, Trinity can be made fairly credible until one reads the fine print.
2. Given the history of Trinity in trying to circumvent U.S. accreditation by European approval, it would appear that the schools overseas drop Trinity after they gain knowledge and experience with them.
3. One can earn University of Wales degrees by thesis or dissertation without matriculating with Trinity . The University, I think, reviews the students' theses or dissertations from Trinity and awards the degrees on that basis. How many Trinity students can write a credible thesis or dissertation that will pass muster for the University of Wales standards?
4. The substandard Trinity course work may be irrelevant regarding the University of Wales degrees. After all, you can complete the degrees with the University of Wales by the thesis or dissertation alone. So, the final decision depends, I think, upon the quality of the paper. Remember that the European philosophy of higher education does not place the premium on course work as in the U.S. Degrees may be earned by taught courses or by thesis.
5. With all said and done, the Trinity program is pointless. Just matriculate with the University of Wales and earn their degree by thesis or dissertation. It's still all smoke and mirrors with Trinity.

 

[Broadus]

I don't know about Phoenix, but a pastor friend wanted to do external PhD work and was persuaded by Trinity that its work was rigorous. He applied, was accepted, and began his first course. After working some time on it he returned it and withdrew from the program, saying that the work was less rigorous than his MDiv work at New Orleans Seminary.

Bill

 

[Martin]

Martin,

Do you know any Master degree in Church History by distance education?

==Honestly, I don't know of a MA/Church History that is offered online (in America). Having said that, Regent University offers a MA in Christian Doctrine and History. Two concerns I do have: (1) I don't see a heavy Church History requirement in that program, but they do have plenty of room for electives which could be used for Church History courses. However I would be curious how many different Church History courses are offered online on a regular basis. (2) I would also be concerned with Regent's pentecostal leanings. While there is nothing wrong with being pentecostal, a person should be aware of those leanings before signing up for the program and while working in the program.

Church History is, of course, one of my areas of interest. I am also interested in early American History (pre-history to 1877). Specifically I spend most of my time studying Colonial New England and the Puritans (social, political, and religious history of the area). I am currently doing research on Native American slavery during the time of King Philip's War (1675-1676). What I have done, from an academic stand point, is earn a MA in Religion degree from seminary and now I am working on a MA in History degree from a secular university. When I choose to earn a PhD I will try to mix the two, probably looking at some aspect of religion in early New England. This opens up more academic doors for me since I am no longer limited to Bible Colleges and Seminaries for future employment/education. I am also learning much more about the general history of American then I would have in a MA Church History program.

There are two regionally accredited MA in History programs offered online in America. The first is offered by Sam Houston State University in Texas. They offer a MA in History online in which a student can focus on "Military History, Early American History, Recent American History, and European and World History". American Military University also offers MA History degrees online. A student can focus on ancient, European, American, or Global history. They also offer a MA in Military History. American Military University is regionally accredited and is open to military and civilian students. I am not sure, but I think there are several MA in History programs offered at a distance in Europe.

 

[Martin]

Whereas I cannot claim extensive knowledge of this new relationship and what it means, I do know something of Trinity and the University of Wales. Spurgeon College of London did a similar thing with a graduate degree in Baptist history but I think the program has been discontinued.

Here are just a few of my thoughts on this new claim by Trinity:

1. The awarding of degrees by a chartered university for work completed at another institution is a time-honored and legitimate process in the European system but it may be stretching to the breaking point across the Atlantic. How much does the University of Wales really know about Trinity? After all, a little can be made to look like a whole lot on paper. At a distance, Trinity can be made fairly credible until one reads the fine print.
2. Given the history of Trinity in trying to circumvent U.S. accreditation by European approval, it would appear that the schools overseas drop Trinity after they gain knowledge and experience with them.
3. One can earn University of Wales degrees by thesis or dissertation without matriculating with Trinity . The University, I think, reviews the students' theses or dissertations from Trinity and awards the degrees on that basis. How many Trinity students can write a credible thesis or dissertation that will pass muster for the University of Wales standards?
4. The substandard Trinity course work may be irrelevant regarding the University of Wales degrees. After all, you can complete the degrees with the University of Wales by the thesis or dissertation alone. So, the final decision depends, I think, upon the quality of the paper. Remember that the European philosophy of higher education does not place the premium on course work as in the U.S. Degrees may be earned by taught courses or by thesis.
5. With all said and done, the Trinity program is pointless. Just matriculate with the University of Wales and earn their degree by thesis or dissertation. It's still all smoke and mirrors with Trinity.

==Many very good points. :thumbs: