Trinity revisited!

Trinity or no trinity?

Continuation of other thread....

 

I am talking about the WORDS ('have been') that the KJV translators ADDED to the text 'for clarity', that makes it say something that the original does not.

Of course you do. You want it to say that. My rendering is based on the original Hebrew, and the Stongs definitions. Nothing else. You don't have to be a scholar to figure out that they added words.

No you don't! You are ignoring 400 verses that show that God is not Jesus, but Lord. You are NOT taking them all together. Do a search for verses with the words 'Father', 'God', 'Lord' and 'Jesus' in them.

Who's words are those that you are 'not ignoring'? Because my Bible doesn't say that there are ANY people being held under punishment NOW. What about the 'whole' Bible when it comes to all the verses that say things like 'utterly consumed' and 'utterly destroyed'? Do you just ignore those, or is there some new fangled way of making them 'fit' with your doctrine?

So then why are you writing in upper case? I use uppercase to show emphasis. It is quicker than putting it in bold. I can't wait to see all your proofs, because for the past 2 months I have read and re read all the verses that have 'God', 'Father', 'Lord' and 'Jesus' in them, and I have YET to encounter even ONE that states that Jesus is the Most High God. NOT EVEN ONE.

What words have I put in your mouth? Did you NOT say that there are people UNDER PUNISHMENT NOW???? Come one Neal, you said it in the other thread, and you have said it here!

You are wrong Neal, demonstrably wrong. Jesus does not HAVE TO BE GOD, for ANYTHING to be possible. Why is it that the Bible says that there is ONE God, the Father and ONE Lord Jesus Christ, if JESUS is that ONE GOD? I AGAIN, have never said, nor do I believe that He is just another creature of God. He proceeded forth from God. I am a creature of God. I did not proceed forth from God. There is a difference. And I don't even like cake.

Those charts made NO sense of what you believe! They have only confused me more. I have NO intention of rethinking my position unless GOD shows me that I should. I KNOW Who I am believing in. All of what you and DHK have explained is just have a 'mystery'.

I have ALSO stated that! Do you not read the Bible? I mean, if I didn't know any better I would think that you didn't! Jesus is Lord. He is the Son of the Living God. The express Image of God. The Word of God, that proceeded forth from God. ALL of that is in the BIBLE.

Well, let's see, I studied the BIBLE instead of a 'doctrine', so that my judgment of the Scriptures would not be tainted by MAN. Wouldn't you say that is the WISER thing to do? If I told you that I was seeking GOD, would you tell me to go to the BIBLE, or to man's doctrines? I have no intention of trying to make sense of the trinity. I have not ignored anything. I have weighed all the verses that pertain to this subject against the WHOLE of scripture. If the Bible says that there is ONE God, and that it is the FATHER, and ONE Lord, and that it is Jesus, I am not going to run around telling people that the ONE GOD is Jesus! It didn't say that!

Ok, smarty pants, then what ELSE is it based on?

That is too funny to even express in words. Let's see, God, in His infinite wisdom inspired men to write His Word. In it you find COUNTLESS mentions of the Sabbath, and commands to keep it holy, and people keeping it, and people being warned that if they don't they will....and here we go into the punishment 'consumed together'. Then of course YOU have the idea that people will go RIGHT to heaven when they die, even though there is NO support for that, and you tell ME that I am ignoring verses??? I'm not trying to be overly pius here Neal, but of all the people that I have encountered here, I am one of the only people that actually DOES consider the WHOLE bible in their study. To have you accuse me of that is about as funny as my accusation that you were going to start going to tree hugger meetings!

God Bless (continued in next post)

 

Originally posted by Neal4Christ

Uh, you are so wrong, it is silly. If that is the case we need to throw out Revelation, and all of John's books for that matter, because he is a LIAR.

Uh, YEAH! Since the BIBLE says that ALL authority and Power has been GIVEN to Jesus BY God, and that God MADE Him Kok's, and Lol's, then YES, it is VERY possible for Jesus, who is the Son of God to be the Judge, and final authority for all creation. Because GOD gave it to Him!

Reference? Oh, wait, that would just be your logic again.

RIGHT, so then when the Bible says that ALL power was given to Jesus in Matt 28:18, which is the prophetic fulfillment of Daniel 7:13, they were just 'pretending'?

No, it isn't at ALL the only thing that can explain it. The Bible completely explains it, and the answer is NOT that Jesus is the Most High God. God, was Kok's and Lol's, UNTIL He passed that authority over to His Son. In heaven, when Jesus went to His Father, after Mary met Him at the tomb, and He told her not to touch Him, God gave Him all power over creation, because after being the firstborn of all creation, and NOW He was the firstfruit from the dead, He THEN had preeminence.

Think about how rediculous you sound trying to say that God CAN'T do something!
He can do WHATEVER He wants to do, HE IS GOD!

Ok, so tell me His Name. 'Trinity'? Is that your 'One God'? (and quit stealin' my word )

Actually, it is the Bible that says that we will bow and worship Him. Jesus told us to worship the Father. He also told us to Worship 'Him' that made the heavens, and earth. SO, we are to worship both. I don't have a problem with that. I worship God, I worship the Lord Jesus. Sometimes even at the same time! The problem with your faulty logic in reference to my beliefs is that you think that by worshipping Jesus, that I am worshipping ANOTHER God. You are wrong. I do not see Jesus as another God. I have ONE God. The SAME God, that Jesus has.

Wrong. The Bible says that the One Lord, is Jesus. What do you do with that? How does that fit in your 'economy'? What I just wrote that you mocked, is a compilation of about 5 different texts. In the Bible. It isn't something that I just pulled out of my pocket and labelled as fact.

MAN, why do you limit God?! WHERE does it say that He CAN'T make anyone Lord? You are WRONG! It exlicitly said that God GAVE HIM all authority. GOD DID.

Are you sure about that? In the trinity you have one 'God' that lumps together the 3 'persons' of the Godhead. What does that do with the Father? What does it do with the Son? DO you still HAVE a Father in that triangle? Do you still have a Son in there? What does it do with the literal Fatherhood, and Sonship of God and Jesus?

What does it do to the relationship between them, or are they just 3 'persons' who share the same essense, and have slightly different roles?

I think that the trinity DENIES the Father. It affords Jesus the status of Most High God, something that the Bible never does.

The Father is the Most High God.
The trinity is in effect USURPING the throne of God, and placing Jesus there.
The Bible says that Jesus is at the Right hand of the Father.

God Bless

 

I'm sorry Neal, I was getting mad too.

I need to take a breather anyway.

God Bless

 

Helen,
Because the other one is getting really long, and it drags down the speed of the board when we let threads get long.

Badwidth monitor

That is my official title!

 

DHK,

From what I have seen of MEE and Oneness's posts what you just posted describes the Oneness belief!

That Jesus is the same 'One God' from the OT.

That is what they believe.

 

ALWAYS?

I don't think so!

I would have to say that calling people heretics, and telling them that they are lost would not only be considered a personal attack, but should also be considered very un Christ like, but then I wouldn't expect you to defend me against people that you agree with no matter how personal they got.

In case you can only see the posts where I get mad, I will, in this case point you to the 4th post of mine in this thread where I apologized to Neal for expressing that anger.