Trinity

hrhema, you cannot recreate God and then say you are worshipping the one true God.

Jesus is as much God as the Father and they both have existed eternally and neither has had a beginning. In order for the God to be an eternal Father, he must have an eternal Son.

It is salvific. Consider Romans 10:9. One must call upon the Lord (as revealed in the Word and not created in the mind of man).

 

I would take the Bible, show it has three dimensions and say that it cannot be a Bible if one of the dimensions are taken away.

And maybe the only reason it took so long for the doctrine to develope was because there was no reason to question that unity until someone doubted it.

 

hrhema, The doctine of the trinity did not develope at Nicea in 325. The heresy that Jesus was not God and had been created out of nothing was invented shortly before by Arius and caused a disruption in the Church.
Constantine, worried about disunity within his empire, called the Bishops together and told them to straighten it.
The council did not invent the trinity, but defended the doctrine that had always been believed.
You really think that 318 Christian bishops would all get together on a whim and invent some heretical notion out of the blue that went against all prior beliefs just for the heck of it and vote 315 to 3 for it?
No, they were simply reaffirming what the Bible says because a new teaching against it had arisen and drawn some followers.

MR

 

I'm still learning about the Trinity.

 

Some people question the trinity after this fashion: How can one plus one plus one equal one?

But the true equation is infinity plus infinity plus infinity equals infinity, because God is infinite in all His manifestations.

 

The Blood of Jesus saves. Plain and simple.

The doctrine that later became Arianism was not created by Arian. That is a false dichotomy.
There were others shortly after the death of the Apostle John who taught this doctrine. The doctrine of the Trinity as taught today did not come into the forefront until the Council of Constantinople. Constantine banned Arianism but turned around a few years later and embraced it and banned Athansius and his crowd.

John wrote in the Beginning was the Word and the Word was God and the Word was with God. But what beginning. Yes, Jesus existed at creation of this planet Earth but where do we have proof in the Bible of what happened before then. We don't. It is pure speculation on anyones part.

 

hrhema, are you saying that Christ is not the eternal God?

 

I am just asking for proof of where did those who created this doctrine of the Trinity found scripture that disproved what was taught by the post-Apostolic Fathers and proves that God the Son and God the Holy Ghost are Co-eternal.

 

Wow... just... Wow!

 

Kal-el: Go to the Other Religion Site and look at "A Message from Oneness<" Read my posts on this thread and maybe you will understand what I am saying.

 

One God, three offices (not persons).

 

Umm... that isn't biblical.

 

Latreia,

Where does the Bible say "three persons"? "Persons" is just a term. Is "Father" a person or an office? Is "Son" a person or an office? Is "Holy Spirit" a person or an office?

 

Latreia:

The only person the Bible mentions in the Bible is Jesus. Did not Paul say that the fullness of the Godhead dwells in him bodily. Please explain how the FULLNESS OF THE GODHEAD DWELLS IN JESUS BODILY if the other two are persons?

People turn to the Book of John to try and prove the Holy Spirit is a he just because Jesus used the person pronoun "he" but what did Jesus say:

"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, who will never leave you. He is the Holy SPirit who leads into all truth. The world at large cannot receive him, because it isn't looking for him and doesn't recognize him. But you do, because he LIVES WITH YOU NOW, and later will be in you. No, I will not abandon you as orphans, I will come to you."

Jesus made it clear that the other counselor or comforter would no longer be his flesh and body there on Earth but his poured out spirit. Who lived with them? Jesus did. He said he would be within them. How by the indwelling spirit. Jesus said he would not abandon them but he would come to them. How? As the Holy Spirit???

 

Imagine three persons.

Now imagine that they are all omniscient including knowing each others every thought and motive.

Now imagine that these three have perfect harmony and agreement of purpose.

Now imagine these three are all omnipresent.

Now imagine that these three are all eternal.

Now imagine that these three are all absolutely omnipotent.

Are there three? Yes.

Is there only one? Yes.

Where does one end and the other begin? Hmmm...

Are they distinct as persons? Yes.

Are they distinct in nature? No.

 

The Bible does teach the personhood of the three members of the Godhead. They can be angered, grieved etc.; all characteristics of persons, not offices. Perhaps, since it you who offers the heretical notion (in that it violates historic accepted christian belief) yyou could offer evidencefor it?

 

Hrhema, you are so wrong, and the scripture you quote proves it. Jesus says He will ask His Father. You ask people, not offices, things. The prayer that Jesus taufght was a prayer to a paerson. Paul says we have a Spirit which has us cry out Abba father, personal terms.

The fact is that the full deity of the Spirit is taught in Scipture, that it was not made an issuse of teaching right away is not evidence against that. The facts of history are simply such that the questions that first came out revolved, rightly, around Jesus. And only later did they deal with the Spirit.

BTW, this is a baptist only forum. If you wish to teach binitariaism or some such please don't post here. binitarianism is not christian, nevermind baptist, belief.

 

Latreia,

Office itself is not a person yet can be described as having personal charactistics because a person must occupy it.

I believe "Father", "Son", and "Holy Spirit" are offices simply because of the terms themselves. For example, not every male is a "father", not every child is a "son", and not every spirit is "holy".

I don't think it would help to post any scriptures. There are too many assumptions needing to be defined first. So I'm simply discussing the concept itself.

 

Maybe that's the key. Don't make assumptions, let the scripture speak for itself.