I was only saying what other poster believed in , by his postings on the subject!
Not what what I, JesusFan believes in!
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True/False : it is The Will of God that NONE perish, All Receive His Son Jesus!
- Thread starter JesusFan
- Start date
I was only saying what other poster believed in , by his postings on the subject!
Not what what I, JesusFan believes in!
preacher4truth
Active Member
OK. So you were not stating this as your belief?
I thought it sounded contrary to what else I have read you saying. My apologies if this is not your belief. It was not clear by reading what you said.
:thumbsup: :1_grouphug:
IF I actually believed all that stuff wrote in the above quote...
Not only not a Baptist, good bet not even a Christian!
I do not believe that 100% of what an unsaved, unregenerate person does is evil. If everything an unsaved person does is sin, this makes God's commands nonsensical. If it is just as much a sin to tell the truth as it is to tell a lie, why is the law necessary to condemn a man? If it is just as sinful to be honest as it is to be a thief, then why command men not to steal? You are a sinner no matter what you do, even if you obey God's commands. How can this be just?
So, IMHO to believe everything an unsaved person does is sin is nonsensical to say the least.
And to trust Jesus is to OBEY the gospel. So, if you believe an unregenerate person can trust Jesus and be born again, you must believe an unsaved person capable of doing some righteous acts. Is trusting Jesus a sin? Absurd!
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Trusting Jesus is an act of obedience, not trusting Jesus is an act of disobedience. So, if you are not a Calvinist, you must believe man has the ability to obey God.
Does this work earn salvation? No, because any righteous acts a man does are negated by sin.
Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
This verse is ridiculous if everything an unsaved man does is sin.
Continued...
I do not believe that 100% of what an unsaved, unregenerate person does is evil. If everything an unsaved person does is sin, this makes God's commands nonsensical. If it is just as much a sin to tell the truth as it is to tell a lie, why is the law necessary to condemn a man? If it is just as sinful to be honest as it is to be a thief, then why command men not to steal? You are a sinner no matter what you do, even if you obey God's commands. How can this be just?
So, IMHO to believe everything an unsaved person does is sin is nonsensical to say the least.
And to trust Jesus is to OBEY the gospel. So, if you believe an unregenerate person can trust Jesus and be born again, you must believe an unsaved person capable of doing some righteous acts. Is trusting Jesus a sin? Absurd!
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Trusting Jesus is an act of obedience, not trusting Jesus is an act of disobedience. So, if you are not a Calvinist, you must believe man has the ability to obey God.
Does this work earn salvation? No, because any righteous acts a man does are negated by sin.
Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
This verse is ridiculous if everything an unsaved man does is sin.
Cont
It would be nonsensical for James to say if a man keep the whole law, yet offend in one point he is guilty of all if man were incapable of keeping some of the law. Do you see that?
Doing good is not man's problem, God is not offended by good. It is our sin that offends a HOLY God. If you sin even one time in your entire lifetime, then you have come short of the glory of God and cannot enter his presence.
But nowhere do the scriptures say everything an unsaved man does is sin. Cornelius was not saved, else God would not have commanded Peter to go preach the gospel to him. Yet the scriptures say he was devout and feared God, and that God heard his prayers.
The Philipian jailer was not saved, else Paul would not have told him that if he believed "thou SHALT be saved". He was not saved, yet he sought God, something the Calvinist says is impossible.
Was it evil for him to seek salvation? Absurd!
But seeking Christ and trusting Christ does not EARN salvation, our sins negate or nullify any righteous acts we might do. But when we do trust Christ, his righteousness is imputed to us. Our sins are taken away and we become righteous IN HIM.
Doing good is not man's problem, God is not offended by good. It is our sin that offends a HOLY God. If you sin even one time in your entire lifetime, then you have come short of the glory of God and cannot enter his presence.
But nowhere do the scriptures say everything an unsaved man does is sin. Cornelius was not saved, else God would not have commanded Peter to go preach the gospel to him. Yet the scriptures say he was devout and feared God, and that God heard his prayers.
The Philipian jailer was not saved, else Paul would not have told him that if he believed "thou SHALT be saved". He was not saved, yet he sought God, something the Calvinist says is impossible.
Was it evil for him to seek salvation? Absurd!
But seeking Christ and trusting Christ does not EARN salvation, our sins negate or nullify any righteous acts we might do. But when we do trust Christ, his righteousness is imputed to us. Our sins are taken away and we become righteous IN HIM.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Sigh. You've rejected unconditional election, and stated God does indeed judge us by our works in electing us, in other words, He then elects us (or at least you)by (y)our works. Wrong.
That's false teaching.
You don't understand James that you quote. Keeping part of the law is not good, as you imply, as if there were multiple choice and keeping part of it out did the fact that breaking any of it damned a mans soul to hell, and made him a good boy. Or as if God said if we keep a few of them, we're good.
More false teaching by you.
Even if you were correct, you forget ALL our righteousnesses are filthy rags. But again, you're wrong.
It's the fact that we have broken all of it, and proves man lost. Keeping some of it doesn't count as good.
You believe in conditional election, that God judges your works, and thereby chooses you, conditioned upon your works. This is what you've stated.
Wrong again.
:thumbsup:
No, I am saying that it ridiculous to believe that telling a lie and telling the truth are both sin.
Do unregenerate men tell the truth at times? YES. Is that obeying God's command? YES. So how can it be sin?
I agree that trying to earn salvation through one's works is sin, that is a different issue altogether.
Sin is a transgression of the law. If God commands men not to lie but tell the truth, then how can telling the truth be sin? It is a logical impossibility that telling the truth and telling a lie are both sins.
So, I ask you, will God punish men for telling the truth?
Please answer that question.
Do unregenerate men tell the truth at times? YES. Is that obeying God's command? YES. So how can it be sin?
I agree that trying to earn salvation through one's works is sin, that is a different issue altogether.
Sin is a transgression of the law. If God commands men not to lie but tell the truth, then how can telling the truth be sin? It is a logical impossibility that telling the truth and telling a lie are both sins.
So, I ask you, will God punish men for telling the truth?
Please answer that question.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Oh, So now you're making up foolish nonsensical, not an issue arguments, to avoid truth and facing the actual facts. "Telling the truth and a lie are not both evil." Uh. LOL!!!! Unreal.
Have you hit your head?
Bottom line: Your teaching is patently false.
You believe you earned election, conditionally, by your works. False teaching.
That you won't apologize for lying and repent as any Christian brother would do when confronted leaves me the option of not listening to any more of your drivel. Which is what it is.
That you lie and have no conscience and won't apologize or repent, and are filled with false teaching is telltale.
Winman asks:
Do unregenerate men tell the truth at times? YES. Is that obeying God's command? YES. So how can it be sin?
Answer: The unregenerate tells the truth only when it is to his advantage. Also, humility doesn't become him. I speak from 53 Years of experience. Sin was my friend.:tonofbricks:
Do unregenerate men tell the truth at times? YES. Is that obeying God's command? YES. So how can it be sin?
Answer: The unregenerate tells the truth only when it is to his advantage. Also, humility doesn't become him. I speak from 53 Years of experience. Sin was my friend.:tonofbricks:
Of course, we will be gracious & so will let you have the last word:jesus:
No, I am trying to establish that unregenerate man can do some good and obey God. You admit men can tell the truth, but then say it is sin. Nonsense.
I have never said man earns salvation, that is impossible.
I do say election is conditional, God elects those that submit to him and trust Christ. I do say trusting Christ is an act of obedience which I have shown from Paul's own words (Rom 6:17, Rom 10:16).
That election is conditional is shown by the parable of the wedding in Matthew 22. Only those who obeyed the king and came when he called were chosen. Does this mean they earned their way to the wedding? No, they could not have come to the wedding unless the king had graciously invited them. What would have happened if they had attempted to attend without an invitation? They would have been cast out.
Nevertheless, they had to obey when called, something you cannot grasp. The king destroyed those who disobeyed and would not come.
Was it evil when they obeyed and came?
Of course you will say they were regenerated. Tell me, where do the scriptures say man must be regenerated to have the ability to come to God?