"Check" your last couple replies to meand come back and please do tell me how they qualify as logic and reasoned debate, "tough guy"...
Benjamin...mad.
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Benjamin...mad.
Ah, "tough guy" are not my words but his and was an example (look right above for another) to him about the way he trolls in with his one-liners, so try to be a little more informed before you come in "sputtering" about mad, eh?
Yeah, I know you and BB share the same values and beliefs. I don't agree with the liberal interpretation of the separation of church and state in the constitution, okay?
You call what I call religious freedom, compulsion, got it. No surprise there that you think our rights to be wrong. No surprise that my point about "state-endorsed" teaching of family values and such has been neglected as a comparison either.
You call it "watered-down religion" and make the claim it has no value, but I will claim things such as taking down the Ten Commandments and teachers afraid or unwilling to allow things such as prayer does and has made difference... Of course, I'm not of the opinion that only Baptist Christians are going to heaven...
Sent from my Moto Droid Turbo.
No. I want very much for him to continue as is. I like it. We're gonna stay abreast of a lot of things from his utilizing of the social media, DIRECTLY, from Donald Trump POTUS. Never happened like this ever before.
IMO, he's either gonna be one of the best or one of the worst presidents we've ever had.
Wow, now I think only Baptist Christians are going to heaven? Whew. I don't claim to know whether anyone is going to heaven; I leave that to those who think they know it all. Calling all strawmen ... report to Benjamin.
Oops. I didn't say you were mad. Maybe you, too, should read more closely.
You think promulgating a civil religion advances the Kingdom. I don't. You think plunking down Ten Commandments monuments on public property advances the Kingdom. I don't.
Again, I am for the free exercise of religion. (It's in the Constitution; you can look it up. And you will find it in Thomas Helwys' writings and the writings of countless other Baptists, such as John Leland and Isaac Backus and E.Y. Mullins). I will defend the right of every American to live out his or her religious beliefs (within the common rules of society) and I do not believe this means that religion should be removed from public life. Students have a right to pray and talk about their beliefs; teachers have a right to, when asked, relate their own beliefs.
What I am opposed to is compulsion in religion. Yes, compulsory religion is "watered down" because it represents some least common denominator religion. Christianity is not that. It demands total allegiance to a crucified and risen savior who will come again to judge all of humanity. That's powerful stuff, not the stuff of an ersatz Protestant-like psuedo-theology that may tickle the ears but fall short of real religion.
Oops. I didn't say you were mad. Maybe you, too, should read more closely.
You think promulgating a civil religion advances the Kingdom. I don't. You think plunking down Ten Commandments monuments on public property advances the Kingdom. I don't.
Again, I am for the free exercise of religion. (It's in the Constitution; you can look it up. And you will find it in Thomas Helwys' writings and the writings of countless other Baptists, such as John Leland and Isaac Backus and E.Y. Mullins). I will defend the right of every American to live out his or her religious beliefs (within the common rules of society) and I do not believe this means that religion should be removed from public life. Students have a right to pray and talk about their beliefs; teachers have a right to, when asked, relate their own beliefs.
What I am opposed to is compulsion in religion. Yes, compulsory religion is "watered down" because it represents some least common denominator religion. Christianity is not that. It demands total allegiance to a crucified and risen savior who will come again to judge all of humanity. That's powerful stuff, not the stuff of an ersatz Protestant-like psuedo-theology that may tickle the ears but fall short of real religion.
Is that the problem? Trump isn't 'dignified" enough for you?
Again, it's what got him elected.
You think this is a first? Think Obama.
Is there something about narcissists that rules out that they will do a good job?
Disagree strongly. Methinks he's a whole lot more savvy than you're giving him credit for. Look at all the talent he is surrounding himself with.
If they do their jobs well just think of all the time he will have to utilize social media to keep us DIRECTLY informed.
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Funny, but what I was referring to was that although all other religions might be considered watered compared to Baptist that that (being watered-down) is no reason to give up on some basics that just might plant some seeds leading to one’s salvation.
That’s weird, it sure looked to me you were suggesting I was mad. Silly me.
“Civil religion”? Is that what I meant by “Christian values”? Or do you mean any type of Christian teachings which is not first and foremost “Baptist Theology” is worthless. I’ll figure it must be the later because otherwise I’d have to point that strawman right back your way…
And here I thought I was talking about Christian values, rather than advancing the kingdom. I’m starting to think you shouldn’t have starting out on this thread talking about strawman, because the idea seems to be taking you over.
Again, so am I.
Ah, duh, we’ve already been here and I told you I do not agree with the liberal interpretation.
I doubt many of them would agree with today’s Progressive Globalist’s agenda of keeping Christian values which relates back to the interpretation you and others put on the constitutional law and think of your interpretation as religious liberty rather than suppression.
“within the common rules of society” you mean the rules as YOU interpret separation of church and state and believe it to preserve religious liberty? I would almost agree with everything you said above but I’m afraid I’m going to have to have to call you on a “weaseler” here because of that one…
Good thing you didn’t say I am a proponent of compulsion or I’d have to call you on yet another strawman.
Nah, in this case you’re merely begging the question because of the belief that the Progressive Globalists Leftist, Atheist, etc. are right in their arguments that allowing Christian values to be taught in public school forces religion on others. BTW, you still have the problem of explaining how teaching secular family values doesn’t in comparison. – and how this playing field is level…I called your claim of “compulsion” my “religious liberty”… Got that yet?Guess we’re back to your definition of “watered down” and whether or not some generic Christianity has any value at all in our schools…
Not what? If you mean any Christian teaching that doesn’t line up perfectly with “Baptist Theology”? I think Paul disagrees with you, just sayin…
And although the message might not be complete in such an environment you cannot deny that some seeds being planted is much better than none or that it might lead to sufficient knowledge and cannot deny the teaching of Christian values to our children is better than teaching them the “compulsory” family values the secularist would attempt to teach our children – which is not treated with equal attention because of the accepted argument (by Progressives and alike) that it is not a religion. Well, I suppose you could deny it but you never logically prove “none” is better than “some” when it comes to Christian values…Not to this Christian.
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Hey, you are interrupting our debate with this on topic stuff you know?!
...Just kidding. Not sure how I got into this, probably BB started after his Bible shaming fell short, but I'll stop now.
Yeah we get hard hitting and real commentary like "Merryl Streep is overrated." Cutting edge stuff there.
Benjamin:
I’m not even going to try to respond to all of the things raised in your rhetorical catastrophes since much of it was unfounded accusation and venom. I will pull out the two significant assertions and deal with them quickly, to save other forum users the trouble of going through endless yammering.
I noticed on a site called Baptist Symposium, the statement of faith for Baptists is the 2000 Baptist Faith and Message, which has the confession:
So apparently you do agree that separation of church and state is a Baptist (and Christian) principle/value.
I’m not even going to try to respond to all of the things raised in your rhetorical catastrophes since much of it was unfounded accusation and venom. I will pull out the two significant assertions and deal with them quickly, to save other forum users the trouble of going through endless yammering.
I don’t think true Christianity can be taken out of the public school. True Christianity is formed in a person’s character by Christ Himself, and the Spirit Who resides in true Christians. Folks to talk about “taking God” or “taking Christianity” out of school seem to confuse official state acknowledgement of God or Christianity with the simple reality of the presence of God. As the Jewish people learned in the Babylonian captivity and Baptists learned under persecution in Europe, the colonial United States, and in places all over the world, God is with them and will bless their ministry, even if the government opposes them.
No. I say that separation of church and state is a Christian value. There’s a difference.
I noticed on a site called Baptist Symposium, the statement of faith for Baptists is the 2000 Baptist Faith and Message, which has the confession:
XVII. Religious Liberty
God alone is Lord of what is right and wrong. Man’s sense of what is right and wrong is free from the rules and commandments of men. These rules and commandments may be different from His Word. They may not be found in His Word. Church and state should be separate. The state owes protection to every church. The state owes complete freedom to every church in seeking spiritual matters. In giving this freedom, no religious group or denomination should be given any special treatment by the state. The national government was planned by God. It is the duty of Christians to give faithful obedience in all things that are not against the known will of God. The church should not expect the national government to do its work. The gospel of Christ considers only spiritual methods to reach its purposes. The state has no right to require punishment for religious beliefs of any kind. The state has no right to require taxes for the support of any form of religion. A free church in a free state is the Christian ideal. This suggests the right of free communication with God by all men. This also suggests the right to start and spread religious opinions without trouble from the government.
Genesis 1:27; 2:7; Matthew 6:6-7,24; 16:26; 22:21; John 8:36; Acts 4:19-20; Romans 6:1-2; 13:1-7; Galatians 5:1,13; Philippians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:1-2; James 4:12; 1 Peter 2:12-17; 3:11-17; 4:12-19.
God alone is Lord of what is right and wrong. Man’s sense of what is right and wrong is free from the rules and commandments of men. These rules and commandments may be different from His Word. They may not be found in His Word. Church and state should be separate. The state owes protection to every church. The state owes complete freedom to every church in seeking spiritual matters. In giving this freedom, no religious group or denomination should be given any special treatment by the state. The national government was planned by God. It is the duty of Christians to give faithful obedience in all things that are not against the known will of God. The church should not expect the national government to do its work. The gospel of Christ considers only spiritual methods to reach its purposes. The state has no right to require punishment for religious beliefs of any kind. The state has no right to require taxes for the support of any form of religion. A free church in a free state is the Christian ideal. This suggests the right of free communication with God by all men. This also suggests the right to start and spread religious opinions without trouble from the government.
Genesis 1:27; 2:7; Matthew 6:6-7,24; 16:26; 22:21; John 8:36; Acts 4:19-20; Romans 6:1-2; 13:1-7; Galatians 5:1,13; Philippians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:1-2; James 4:12; 1 Peter 2:12-17; 3:11-17; 4:12-19.
So apparently you do agree that separation of church and state is a Baptist (and Christian) principle/value.
No surprise, but don't expect a response to the couple of issues you then thought you found the courage to address that were tucked-in behind your childish insults.
Makes me wonder how well he knows her and what's gone on between the two in the past. After all he is quite aquainted with NYC billionaires. Didn't she say something to provoke Trump, a known counterpuncher?
All along his opponents have "taken him literally but not seriiously" and his supporters have "taken him seriously but not literally". I think the guy's a whoooole lot more savvy than his opponents give him credit for and I look forward to watching how he utilizes social media to expose the swamp critters.
There is always going to be someone poking him. Focus on the job. You don't have to respond to every taunt. It's going to get him in trouble one day. It already has caused him more problems than he or we as a country need right now.
Yep. He needs to put down the tweeter.
I've always taken him both seriously and literally. I was advised by my brother-in-law, not to take him literally.
I do think he is a clear and present danger to the United States, seriously and literally. We'll see what he does as President, but the preview we've had as President-elect does not have me hopeful.