Truth

[HisWitness]

What has happened to God's TRUTH today in our Churches ???
Isaiah 59-13:In transgressing and lying against the Lord,and departing away from our God,speaking oppression and revolt,conceiving and uttering from the heart words of Falsehood.
Could it be that as the later verses after this state that TRUTH is fallen in the streets and TRUTH faileth--does this describe our day also ??
The reason was the peoples transgressions and speaking revolt and oppression and uttering words of Falsehood.

Jeremiah 7-28:But thou shalt say unto them,This is a nation that obeyeth not the voice of the Lordtheir God,nor receiveth correction:TRUTH is perished,and is cut off from their mouth.
Again we have the same instance of people not receiving correction and not hearing the voice of the Lord--therefore TRUTH perished in their day.

John 3-21:But he that doeth TRUTH cometh to the Light,that hid deeds may be made manifest that they are wrought in God.
Here we have those doing TRUTH and coming to the Light---notice that TRUTH and Light is not Fallen or hidden or taken away from their eyes--because they are not doing as those did with the other verses but these are doing Right(Truth or Righteousness).

John 8-32: And you shall know the TRUTH and the TRUTH shall make you free.
Now we see what TRUTH accomplishes--it makes free--free from false doctrines,those false doctrines hold chains upon us and causes us to live not according to TRUTH and causes us to reflect an attitude of wrath and vengeance upon those around us instead of the reflection of God's Love.
Causes us to be bound in fear and uncertainty--causes us to lead others down the road of false traditions and that of false idols and gods.

Much more scriptures are in the bible of the same instances.

Now I ask us--are we in transgressions--are we walking in TRUTH--are we walking in darkness---are we speaking vanities and leading others astray.

If we do these things then TRUTH is fallen in the streets,taken away from us,hidden from our eyes.

Is this why were in the shape in this generation that we are in ???

May the people of God awaken from their slumber and sleep and evil deeds and REPENT--so that TRUTH may prevail in our Generation

John did say IF we sin--we have an advocate with the Father--The Lord Jesus Christ Himself--let us return to him
May God TURN us back to him and teach us TRUTH :jesus::jesus:

 

[SolaSaint]

One of the problems of today is that many in the church don't believe in absolute truth, and sadly this comes from the pulpit in some churches. If we have no standard then we are doomed.

 

[HisWitness]

One of the problems of today is that many in the church don't believe in absolute truth, and sadly this comes from the pulpit in some churches. If we have no standard then we are doomed.

yep that exactly whats happening behind the pulpits--just what was listed in those scriptures in the post--the same is going on today.

Its really sad and they don't even see what they are doing--blinded,groping along in darkness,and the poor people who are taught those false doctrines are the ones populating our churches also.

:tear::tear::tear:

 

[beameup]

We are in the "last days" of the church and many have turned away from Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers,
having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 2 Timothy 4:3-4

 

[HisWitness]

We are in the "last days" of the church and many have turned away from Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers,
having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 2 Timothy 4:3-4

I disagree on that one--the last days that the scripture talks about in the new testament was the end of the age in the generation of the new testament jews that was complete at ad 70.

we are in the new heaven and earth as we speak :godisgood::godisgood:

 

[DHK]

I disagree on that one--the last days that the scripture talks about in the new testament was the end of the age in the generation of the new testament jews that was complete at ad 70.

we are in the new heaven and earth as we speak :godisgood::godisgood:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

I must have missed the memo somewhere.
Where and when did this take place?

2 Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
--And here?

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
--And here?
Do we ALL actually dwell in righteousness? I don't see it. I do see a lot of murder, rape, and violence however. None of judged with a ruling "rod of iron," by the King of kings, sitting on the throne of David.

 

[HisWitness]

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

I must have missed the memo somewhere.
Where and when did this take place?

2 Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
--And here?

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
--And here?
Do we ALL actually dwell in righteousness? I don't see it. I do see a lot of murder, rape, and violence however. None of judged with a ruling "rod of iron," by the King of kings, sitting on the throne of David.

we have been through these things before--
you are a futurist and im a preterist--simple as that brother :godisgood:

 

[convicted1]

we have been through these things before--
you are a futurist and im a preterist--simple as that brother :godisgood:

No bodily resurrection of the believer at His second coming?

 

[HisWitness]

No bodily resurrection of the believer at His second coming?

you concentrate on 1 thing that is blinding you from seeing the complete truth of the matter friend--look at the time statements and the audience whom is being spoken unto in the texts--its plain if you can see these 2 most important understandings--don't let 1 area you misunderstand cause you to deny the wonderful truth that is there :godisgood::godisgood:

 

[agedman]

you concentrate on 1 thing that is blinding you from seeing the complete truth of the matter friend--look at the time statements and the audience whom is being spoken unto in the texts--its plain if you can see these 2 most important understandings--don't let 1 area you misunderstand cause you to deny the wonderful truth that is there :godisgood::godisgood:

Are you really understanding Scriptures teach that this current earth and heaven is all there is????

 

[HisWitness]

Are you really understanding Scriptures teach that this current earth and heaven is all there is????

not understanding your post their friend--could you be more specific in what your saying ?

 

[DHK]

not understanding your post their friend--could you be more specific in what your saying ?

The preterist goes wrong in the context itself.
The disciples came unto him asking him when these things should happen.
The disciples are not longer Jews, that is "of Judaism."
They are Christians. They were not taken away at 70 A.D. John lived well after that. Thomas probably did as well. He died in India. In fact his martyrdom is recorded in documents in India where he was killed in 72 A.D. "One shall be taken and the other left." Thomas was not taken in 70 A.D., but was killed before the eyes of many in 72 A.D. That is a recorded fact.
All the evidence also points the long life of John, despite the strained efforts of the Preterists to say otherwise. "One shall be taken; the other left."

These were not Jews; but disciples of Christ. There is a difference. The Kingdom that they were asking about was not a Jewish Kingdom but the Kingdom of Christ which he had been teaching them about for three years. They had a vastly different understanding about it then the average Jew.
This is the context that you fail to understand.

 

[DrJamesAch]

I disagree on that one--the last days that the scripture talks about in the new testament was the end of the age in the generation of the new testament jews that was complete at ad 70.

we are in the new heaven and earth as we speak :godisgood::godisgood:

So do you believe that Jesus physically rose from the dead, or is that just as symbolic as the Preterist view of Jesus' "spiritual" return to earth in AD 70 even though Revelation 1:7 says that they shall look on him whom they have pierced, and Acts 1:1-6 shows that Jesus will come BACK in the SAME MANNER he left, or was His ascension after the resurrection symbolic too!

 

[HisWitness]

The preterist goes wrong in the context itself.
The disciples came unto him asking him when these things should happen.
The disciples are not longer Jews, that is "of Judaism."
They are Christians. They were not taken away at 70 A.D. John lived well after that. Thomas probably did as well. He died in India. In fact his martyrdom is recorded in documents in India where he was killed in 72 A.D. "One shall be taken and the other left." Thomas was not taken in 70 A.D., but was killed before the eyes of many in 72 A.D. That is a recorded fact.
All the evidence also points the long life of John, despite the strained efforts of the Preterists to say otherwise. "One shall be taken; the other left."

These were not Jews; but disciples of Christ. There is a difference. The Kingdom that they were asking about was not a Jewish Kingdom but the Kingdom of Christ which he had been teaching them about for three years. They had a vastly different understanding about it then the average Jew.
This is the context that you fail to understand.

lets look at the one left and one taken away text if we may-----

those days were like the days of Noah is what Christ said------
i ask you who was taken away in the flood--and who was left-----

The ungodly that didn't enter the ark was the ones taken away in destruction(killed)the 8 in the ark was the ones left behind

that scripture is referring that the Ungodly(unbelieving jews)would be the ones taken away in the Destruction(abomination of desolation)the destruction of the city and temple at ad 70 in which millions of jews were killed(taken away) and the saints were left behind in that they were saved from the wrath of God that the unbelieving jews suffered--the saints were told to flee the city when they seen it compassed with armies and flee to another place--as the scripture says that the Wrath of God was not for the Saints but for the unbelieving(jews)

 

[agedman]

I disagree on that one--the last days that the scripture talks about in the new testament was the end of the age in the generation of the new testament jews that was complete at ad 70.

we are in the new heaven and earth as we speak :godisgood::godisgood:

The underlined part is what I questioned.

You seem to be saying that this current earth is the "new earth" and that the current heaven is the "new heaven."

I thought Jesus said he was preparing a place for me, but I have had to prepare and care for this place, myself?

When was the harvest in which the tares were left behind?

Perhaps God overlooked my neighborhood!

 

[DrJamesAch]

The preterist goes wrong in the context itself.
The disciples came unto him asking him when these things should happen.
The disciples are not longer Jews, that is "of Judaism."
They are Christians. They were not taken away at 70 A.D. John lived well after that. Thomas probably did as well. He died in India. In fact his martyrdom is recorded in documents in India where he was killed in 72 A.D. "One shall be taken and the other left." Thomas was not taken in 70 A.D., but was killed before the eyes of many in 72 A.D. That is a recorded fact.
All the evidence also points the long life of John, despite the strained efforts of the Preterists to say otherwise. "One shall be taken; the other left."

These were not Jews; but disciples of Christ. There is a difference. The Kingdom that they were asking about was not a Jewish Kingdom but the Kingdom of Christ which he had been teaching them about for three years. They had a vastly different understanding about it then the average Jew.
This is the context that you fail to understand.

It is also recorded fact that John was not exiled until Rome began to use exile as punishment under Domitian whose reign did not begin until AD 81.

The church in Smyrna was in not in existence before AD 70. Smyrna's first bishop was Polycarp who was not even born until AD 69 so unless Polycarp was a year old when he pastored Smyrna, John could not have written Revelation 1:11 and 2:8-10 prior to AD 70.

Laodecea was crushed by an earthquake in AD 61, and Nero spoke of it being desolate in AD 64. Laodecea attempted to get assistance from Rome for assistance to rebuild and was rejected. Yet in Revelation 3:17-18, Laodecea is described as being rich, flourishing, and "having need of nothing". Would be an impossible task to have completely rebuilt Laodecea during Romes war with Israel, and for Laodecea to be completely economically prosperous from AD 64 -AD 70.

ALL of the early church "fathers" write that John wrote Revelation at the end of the reign of Domitian who died in @ AD 96. There was no contention about this historical fact until 500 years after Revelation was published.

The Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24 and Luke 21 state when the ARMIES surround Israel. THe only entity that surrounded Israel in AD 70 was AN ARMY: ROME-SINGULAR-not all the ARMIES of the earth as described in Zechariah 14:2, and of which will occur in the valley of Megiddo-Armageddon (Revelation 16:16) NOT JERUSALEM.

Furthermore, Revelation 9 shows an attack against Israel from the East (see also Daniel 11:44). Rome is WEST of Jerusalem!

 

[agedman]

The preterist goes wrong in the context itself.
The disciples came unto him asking him when these things should happen.
The disciples are not longer Jews, that is "of Judaism."
They are Christians. They were not taken away at 70 A.D. John lived well after that. Thomas probably did as well. He died in India. In fact his martyrdom is recorded in documents in India where he was killed in 72 A.D. "One shall be taken and the other left." Thomas was not taken in 70 A.D., but was killed before the eyes of many in 72 A.D. That is a recorded fact.
All the evidence also points the long life of John, despite the strained efforts of the Preterists to say otherwise. "One shall be taken; the other left."

These were not Jews; but disciples of Christ. There is a difference. The Kingdom that they were asking about was not a Jewish Kingdom but the Kingdom of Christ which he had been teaching them about for three years. They had a vastly different understanding about it then the average Jew.
This is the context that you fail to understand.

It is also recorded fact that John was not exiled until Rome began to use exile as punishment under Domitian whose reign did not begin until AD 81.

The church in Smyrna was in not in existence before AD 70. Smyrna's first bishop was Polycarp who was not even born until AD 69 so unless Polycarp was a year old when he pastored Smyrna, John could not have written Revelation 1:11 and 2:8-10 prior to AD 70.

Laodecea was crushed by an earthquake in AD 61, and Nero spoke of it being desolate in AD 64. Laodecea attempted to get assistance from Rome for assistance to rebuild and was rejected. Yet in Revelation 3:17-18, Laodecea is described as being rich, flourishing, and "having need of nothing". Would be an impossible task to have completely rebuilt Laodecea during Romes war with Israel, and for Laodecea to be completely economically prosperous from AD 64 -AD 70.

ALL of the early church "fathers" write that John wrote Revelation at the end of the reign of Domitian who died in @ AD 96. There was no contention about this historical fact until 500 years after Revelation was published.

The Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24 and Luke 21 state when the ARMIES surround Israel. THe only entity that surrounded Israel in AD 70 was AN ARMY: ROME-SINGULAR-not all the ARMIES of the earth as described in Zechariah 14:2, and of which will occur in the valley of Megiddo-Armageddon (Revelation 16:16) NOT JERUSALEM.

It is sooooooo very good to see we agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.google.com/imgres?client=firefox-a&hs=Cji&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&channel=np&biw=983&bih=540&tbm=isch&tbnid=fi2K7gu4Tx6xZM:&imgrefurl=http://travelingwithsandra.blogspot.com/2011/10/ephesus-st-johns-virgin-mary-shrine.html&docid=ZOtDnbezZ6H2ZM&imgurl=http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-lalXPp_QtLw/TokYkKCUlDI/AAAAAAAAANY/Lc3wBmq32h4/s1600/Copy%252B%252525282%25252529%252Bof%252BP9210193.JPG&w=1600&h=1200&ei=UvDBUceHCrCy0AG054CwCw&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:37,s:0,i:202&iact=rc&page=4&tbnh=165&tbnw=199&start=31&ndsp=13&tx=121&ty=47

 

[DHK]

lets look at the one left and one taken away text if we may-----

those days were like the days of Noah is what Christ said------
i ask you who was taken away in the flood--and who was left-----

The ungodly that didn't enter the ark was the ones taken away in destruction(killed)the 8 in the ark was the ones left behind

that scripture is referring that the Ungodly(unbelieving jews)would be the ones taken away in the Destruction(abomination of desolation)the destruction of the city and temple at ad 70 in which millions of jews were killed(taken away) and the saints were left behind in that they were saved from the wrath of God that the unbelieving jews suffered--the saints were told to flee the city when they seen it compassed with armies and flee to another place--as the scripture says that the Wrath of God was not for the Saints but for the unbelieving(jews)

Your view does not fit with what actually happened. It contradicts history itself.
"One shall be taken the other left behind."
Reconcile it again, this time using a historical account. Why did Jesus make that differentiation?

[FONT=&quot]The destruction of Jerusalem and its Temple was a judgment of God. The atrocities committed at that time were some that were unparalleled in history. The Jewish historian Josephus describes much of it:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Josephus' account is of great value to historians, having been an eyewitness. Josephus had fallen into Roman hands in the defense of Galilee. He was brought by the Romans to witness the siege.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Roman campaign had begun with an uprising by Jewish militants in the countryside in 66 A.D. The war soon converged on Jerusalem in the Passover season of 70 A.D. As the Roman troops, closed in on Jerusalem hundreds of thousands of Jews from the surrounding country sought refuge in Jerusalem within its walls.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Josephus estimated the number of Jews in Jerusalem at the Passover season 70 A.D. to have risen above 3 million. As the siege progressed famine set in. Armed bandits soon formed the habit of going from house to house in search of food, breaking down doors and confiscating food or anything of value for themselves. As the food scarcity intensified conditions got worse and order broke down completely in the besieged city as roving hordes of militants went totally mad looting, killing and ransacking homes and confiscating all stores they could lay their hands on without caring about how their victims would survive.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]According to Josephus, the mad-dog behavior of the armed bandits caused great distress to ordinary people who began dying in great numbers in their homes and on the streets of starvation.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Meanwhile the war escalated and survivors soon began heaving masses of dead bodies over the city walls into the valley below. So terrible was the sight of the trenches filled with bloated, oozing bodies that even the Roman commander Titus cried out at the sight calling out to God to witness that it was not his doing. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Those who tried to escape from the beleaguered city were taken by the Roman soldiers, whipped and tortured and then crucified alive before the walls of the city. Crucifixion beams sprang up one after the other into a forest of thousands of crucified bodies. Attacking Roman soldiers came upon a group of about 6 000 women and children who had sought refuge in a part of the outer temple ground. They simply set the cloister on fire and burned the 6 000 souls to death.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Josephus estimated the number of Jewish dead at about 1.1 million("by famine and by sword"). The survivors over seventeen years of age were sent as prisoners to labor camps in Egypt and the children (about 90 000) were sold as slaves.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Fall-of-Jerusalem-70-AD:-Cannibal-Lady-Feeds-on-Babys-Flesh&id=5476400[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[HisWitness]

The underlined part is what I questioned.

You seem to be saying that this current earth is the "new earth" and that the current heaven is the "new heaven."

I thought Jesus said he was preparing a place for me, but I have had to prepare and care for this place, myself?

When was the harvest in which the tares were left behind?

Perhaps God overlooked my neighborhood!

perhaps you are totally misunderstanding the whole issue here friend ?

Death no longer reigns over mankind but Righteousness--jesus defeated the DEATH that adam passed upon all mankind.

The economy and all that the jews knew in that time was done away with--the High priest and his angels were destroyed and done away with in that time--Christ became the Supreme Ruler and authority--Grace reigned


i know you will still not understand--but look at some preterist sites and study for yourself--it can only help you :love2::love2:

 

[HisWitness]

It is also recorded fact that John was not exiled until Rome began to use exile as punishment under Domitian whose reign did not begin until AD 81.

The church in Smyrna was in not in existence before AD 70. Smyrna's first bishop was Polycarp who was not even born until AD 69 so unless Polycarp was a year old when he pastored Smyrna, John could not have written Revelation 1:11 and 2:8-10 prior to AD 70.

Laodecea was crushed by an earthquake in AD 61, and Nero spoke of it being desolate in AD 64. Laodecea attempted to get assistance from Rome for assistance to rebuild and was rejected. Yet in Revelation 3:17-18, Laodecea is described as being rich, flourishing, and "having need of nothing". Would be an impossible task to have completely rebuilt Laodecea during Romes war with Israel, and for Laodecea to be completely economically prosperous from AD 64 -AD 70.

ALL of the early church "fathers" write that John wrote Revelation at the end of the reign of Domitian who died in @ AD 96. There was no contention about this historical fact until 500 years after Revelation was published.

The Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24 and Luke 21 state when the ARMIES surround Israel. THe only entity that surrounded Israel in AD 70 was AN ARMY: ROME-SINGULAR-not all the ARMIES of the earth as described in Zechariah 14:2, and of which will occur in the valley of Megiddo-Armageddon (Revelation 16:16) NOT JERUSALEM.

Furthermore, Revelation 9 shows an attack against Israel from the East (see also Daniel 11:44). Rome is WEST of Jerusalem!

Theres much more evidence that Revelation was written before ad 70 than after friend--you are just picking out a few that supposes that it wasn't written before ad 70--but all the time statementsof the new testament and their strong Perception in the new testament that he would return in some of their lifetimes(before that generation passed)and audience revelance is plainly for the before ad 70 view friend--you reject all the new testament on your false information--it was the last days unto them--the end of all things for them--end of the world for them--end of their age unto them--you can try and refute and reject all you want but its plainly in front of you--but you are blinded by your own tradition as the jews in Christ's day:tear::tear: