TULIP Redefined

[Skandelon]

Total Depravity - Mankind is born guilty and with a nature of sin. When faced with God's revelation of himself through the creation or his special revelation through his Word and man rebels against it his thoughts become futile and his heart becomes calloused. God though patient with his creation will eventually "give them over" to the lusts of their flesh.

Notice: I didn't say they were born totally depraved, but that they become totally depraved after denying and rebelling from the clearly seen and understood revelation of God. They become hardened, but they are not born hardened as the typical Calvinists teaches.

Unconditional Election- God unconditionally elected a remnant Jews (i.e. the apostles), who deserved to be hardened right along with the rest of them, to carry out the plan of redemption by proclaiming a righteousness that comes to all mankind through faith.

God elected to use the nation of Israel and individual Isrealites to bring redemption to the world. God also elected to grant repentance to the Gentiles by sending these Jewish messengers to them to preach the message of reconciliation and through faith and repentance.

Limited/Particular Atonement - Christ's atonement, though offered to the whole world, is only applied particularly to those who have faith in Christ.

Irresistible Grace - or better stated "Effectual call". God called his apostles effectually to accomplish a divine purpose in redemption history. They are to preach the gospel to every creature by the power of the Holy Spirit. This Holy Spirit is resisted (Acts 7:51) and men are often unwilling despite God's longing to gather them together with him (Matt. 23:37). But, when men refused their message they were instructed to dust their feet and move on in order to proclaim the gospel to "every creature."

Perseverance of the Saints - Those who perservere to the end will be saved. Those who don't won't.

 

[Iconoclast]

This is completely lame. To deny scriptural truth and attempt to introduce this weakness is not even close to being a good idea.
Why would you even post this? there is nothing of value here.

 

[psalms109:31]

Man

I don't know what to say about this. I will tell you what I think of the original TULIP. I think we need to know who and what we are before Christ; dead, with no righteousness of our own. The TULIP is a box that God can't be kept in, He can go outside of what it presented. It is incomplete and you can't put God into five points and say this is God.

Only at the words about Jesus and through the words of Jesus anyone can come, but like I said it comes with two paths not one. You are not forced or inclined to go down any path, because of the roads presented. To believe in Jesus and be saved or continue down the path you are on to condemned.

I will not puff any individual up and say that they have been chosen before the foundation of the world before they even believed, the only one is Jesus. I would tell believers that, because they are believers. Jesus is the only one righteous, the only one deserving. Remain in Him and He will remain in you. Apart from Jesus you are not worthy only to be put in the fire and burned only by the righteous Judge who knows the intent of their heart.

Matthew 11:
25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 26 Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

27 “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

Jesus will reveal the truth to children, children who depend on Him and listen and learn from Him, Jesus will not lose any that He has been given.

 

[Rippon]

This is completely lame. To deny scriptural truth and attempt to introduce this weakness is not even close to being a good idea.
Why would you even post this? there is nothing of value here.

I agree regarding Skan's OP.

 

[Rippon]

The TULIP is a box that God can't be kept in, He can go outside of what it presented. It is incomplete and you can't put God into five points and say this is God.

Why don't you ever learn? Why don't you ever listen?

The five propositions which have been reduced to the so-called five points,i.e.T.U.L.I.P was in response to the five statements of the Remonstrants back in the early part of the 17th century.

It's not about putting limits to God or defining God at all.

If you'd just read a Calvinistic systematic theological work or read say the London Baptist Confession you would understand that Calvinism is considerably more broad than T.U.L.I.P.

I will not puff any individual up and say that they have been chosen before the foundation of the world before they even believed,

Listen. If you are a believer you were chosen before the foundation of the world. It's not a matter of puffing anyone up. There are plenty of passages in Holy Writ to demonstrate that no one has any merit to be elect. All are lost in their sin,all are guilty in the Lord's sight. All are worthy of condemnation.

And of course the elect were chosen before belief -- "before the fouindation of the world" ought to clue you in.

 

[quantumfaith]

Total Depravity - Mankind is born guilty and with a nature of sin. When faced with God's revelation of himself through the creation or his special revelation through his Word and man rebels against it his thoughts become futile and his heart becomes calloused. God though patient with his creation will eventually "give them over" to the lusts of their flesh.

Notice: I didn't say they were born totally depraved, but that they become totally depraved after denying and rebelling from the clearly seen and understood revelation of God. They become hardened, but they are not born hardened as the typical Calvinists teaches.

Unconditional Election- God unconditionally elected a remnant Jews (i.e. the apostles), who deserved to be hardened right along with the rest of them, to carry out the plan of redemption by proclaiming a righteousness that comes to all mankind through faith.

God elected to use the nation of Israel and individual Isrealites to bring redemption to the world. God also elected to grant repentance to the Gentiles by sending these Jewish messengers to them to preach the message of reconciliation and through faith and repentance.

Limited/Particular Atonement - Christ's atonement, though offered to the whole world, is only applied particularly to those who have faith in Christ.

Irresistible Grace - or better stated "Effectual call". God called his apostles effectually to accomplish a divine purpose in redemption history. They are to preach the gospel to every creature by the power of the Holy Spirit. This Holy Spirit is resisted (Acts 7:51) and men are often unwilling despite God's longing to gather them together with him (Matt. 23:37). But, when men refused their message they were instructed to dust their feet and move on in order to proclaim the gospel to "every creature."

Perseverance of the Saints - Those who perservere to the end will be saved. Those who don't won't.

Thank you Skandelon, for giving some things to think about. I notice wonderful contributions to your thoughts. (i.e. lame etc)

I do appreciate you courage, knowing the criticism that you will draw. I applaud you for that. God Bless. Keep studying, praying and reasoning from the scriptures.

 

[psalms109:31]

Why don't you ever learn? Why don't you ever listen?

The five propositions which have been reduced to the so-called five points,i.e.T.U.L.I.P was in response to the five statements of the Remonstrants back in the early part of the 17th century.

It's not about putting limits to God or defining God at all.

If you'd just read a Calvinistic systematic theological work or read say the London Baptist Confession you would understand that Calvinism is considerably more broad than T.U.L.I.P.

Listen. If you are a believer you were chosen before the foundation of the world. It's not a matter of puffing anyone up. There are plenty of passages in Holy Writ to demonstrate that no one has any merit to be elect. All are lost in their sin,all are guilty in the Lord's sight. All are worthy of condemnation.

And of course the elect were chosen before belief -- "before the fouindation of the world" ought to clue you in.

People was cut out of your system and not able to enter for unbelief, that should tell you right there it isn't any individual in some man made random act, but believers in His Son who enter through Him who Jesus is the only one worthy and through Him we are saved before the foundation of the world, you wasn't saved apart from Him and you wasn't able to enter until you trusted Him as a child and listened and learned from Him.

I was not chosen before the foundation of the world and will not lift myself in the position of Jesus because it is Jesus and those who enter in Him through faith that came from God the words about Jesus, and from Jesus, the word of life you were dead until you received it and had no regenerating power without it. Through Him and only in Him was I chosen before the foundation of the world

 

[drfuss]

Total Depravity - Mankind is born guilty and with a nature of sin. When faced with God's revelation of himself through the creation or his special revelation through his Word and man rebels against it his thoughts become futile and his heart becomes calloused. God though patient with his creation will eventually "give them over" to the lusts of their flesh.

Notice: I didn't say they were born totally depraved, but that they become totally depraved after denying and rebelling from the clearly seen and understood revelation of God. They become hardened, but they are not born hardened as the typical Calvinists teaches.

Unconditional Election- God unconditionally elected a remnant Jews (i.e. the apostles), who deserved to be hardened right along with the rest of them, to carry out the plan of redemption by proclaiming a righteousness that comes to all mankind through faith.

God elected to use the nation of Israel and individual Isrealites to bring redemption to the world. God also elected to grant repentance to the Gentiles by sending these Jewish messengers to them to preach the message of reconciliation and through faith and repentance.

Limited/Particular Atonement - Christ's atonement, though offered to the whole world, is only applied particularly to those who have faith in Christ.

Irresistible Grace - or better stated "Effectual call". God called his apostles effectually to accomplish a divine purpose in redemption history. They are to preach the gospel to every creature by the power of the Holy Spirit. This Holy Spirit is resisted (Acts 7:51) and men are often unwilling despite God's longing to gather them together with him (Matt. 23:37). But, when men refused their message they were instructed to dust their feet and move on in order to proclaim the gospel to "every creature."

Perseverance of the Saints - Those who perservere to the end will be saved. Those who don't won't.

Sounds good to me. I saved it for my files.

Since becoming a Christian, I have believed in the doctrines of grace, mercy and salvation. Now I can call myself a Calvinists. Hmmm, Calvinists redefined?

 

[Luke2427]

Thank you Skandelon, for giving some things to think about. I notice wonderful contributions to your thoughts. (i.e. lame etc)

I do appreciate you courage, knowing the criticism that you will draw. I applaud you for that. God Bless. Keep studying, praying and reasoning from the scriptures.

There you go again.

 

[mets65]

Thank you Skandelon, for giving some things to think about. I notice wonderful contributions to your thoughts. (i.e. lame etc)

I do appreciate you courage, knowing the criticism that you will draw. I applaud you for that. God Bless. Keep studying, praying and reasoning from the scriptures.

You seem to be one of the more civil people on this board. I can only assume you're not a full blown Calvinist because otherwise you would be crass and attacking other members. Sadly it seems you can recognize a Calvinist on here by their tone quicker then you can their doctrine.

 

[quantumfaith]

There you go again.

Well, I am a consitent, robust and well defined set. There YOU go again.

 

[Luke2427]

You seem to be one of the more civil people on this board. I can only assume you're not a full blown Calvinist because otherwise you would be crass and attacking other members. Sadly it seems you can recognize a Calvinist on here by their tone quicker then you can their doctrine.

And what stands out to you about your OWN post here?

 

[quantumfaith]

You seem to be one of the more civil people on this board. I can only assume you're not a full blown Calvinist because otherwise you would be crass and attacking other members. Sadly it seems you can recognize a Calvinist on here by their tone quicker then you can their doctrine.

No, I am DEFINITELY NOT a calvinist. Just ask Luke, Rippon and some others. I "try" to be civil but every now and again my sarcasm will get the best of me. Again, Just ask Luke.

I am still "searching" for "what" I am, but am decidedly not in the ranks of the reformers.

 

[Luke2427]

Well, I am a consitent, robust and well defined set. There YOU go again.

Yea, Brother, but you ought to think about breaking it up a bit.

Jump on just one non-reformed person a month about his rudeness and fail to thumbs-up a non-reformed every once in a while.

That would shake things up a bit, don't you think?

 

[mets65]

And what stands out to you about your OWN post here?

I posted that knowing of course the response I would get but there was no other way to get my point across. I'm guilty of posting threads arguing doctrine but at the end of the day we're all brothers in Christ and I think there should be a level of respect between us. We disagree about Calvinism and some theological doctrine, BUT it's not such a disagreement that it impacts our eternal salvation.

 

[quantumfaith]

I posted that knowing of course the response I would get but there was no other way to get my point across. I'm guilty of posting threads arguing doctrine but at the end of the day we're all brothers in Christ and I think there should be a level of respect between us. We disagree about Calvinism and some theological doctrine, BUT it's not such a disagreement that it impacts our eternal salvation.

True, so true. Good luck with that. Blessings

 

[jbh28]

I was not chosen before the foundation of the world

Yes you were according to Ephesians 1:4."Even as he chose US"

Through Him and only in Him was I chosen before the foundation of the world

Well, which is it? Were you chosen or not? Of course our election is in Christ, but it was down before the foundation of the world.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Sounds good to me. I saved it for my files.

Since becoming a Christian, I have believed in the doctrines of grace, mercy and salvation. Now I can call myself a Calvinists. Hmmm, Calvinists redefined?

Drfuss, have you read the book "The doctrines of Grace" by by James M. Boice?

I'd tend to give credibility to that book rather than anyone on here

Amazon has it soft or hardcover

 

[quantumfaith]

I posted that knowing of course the response I would get but there was no other way to get my point across. I'm guilty of posting threads arguing doctrine but at the end of the day we're all brothers in Christ and I think there should be a level of respect between us. We disagree about Calvinism and some theological doctrine, BUT it's not such a disagreement that it impacts our eternal salvation.

For me Mets, its about the heart, which is expressed in the TONE. Disagreement is just fine, such is the nature of humanity.

 

[quantumfaith]

I posted that knowing of course the response I would get but there was no other way to get my point across. I'm guilty of posting threads arguing doctrine but at the end of the day we're all brothers in Christ and I think there should be a level of respect between us. We disagree about Calvinism and some theological doctrine, BUT it's not such a disagreement that it impacts our eternal salvation.

BTW Mets

There are MANY calvinists who are quite civil, even some on this board. I personally know many and count them not only as brothers, but also as friends. Friends who I worship with, and even enjoy the Super Bowl, (although I prefer Hurling) complete with a cold adult beverage.