Turkey's coup flew da coop!?

[righteousdude2]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/15/asia/turkey-military-action/

Who didn't see this coming? As Erdogan moves closer to embracing ISIS sympathizers, the citizens of this country saw the handwriting on the walls of their local Mosque, and it seems as though the more conservative, hard line military leaders had enough and decided to make their move. The trouble is, they may have moved a little too soon (as they didn't have all their ducks in the infamous row), and they may have under estimated the public opinion of Erdogan.

Did you see this coming, and do you believe the military attempt was poorly done and I'll advised? And is it really over? Are there more coup's in Turkey's future?

 

[Smyth]

Considering how quickly it failed, I have to think it was poorly planned.

Isn't Turkey a western-style democracy? At least get your candidate in office before you overthrow the government.

 

[rsr]

Turkey is a democracy, but not a Western-style one. And it will be less so. (Unless you consider Germany after the Nazis won a plurality of the Reichstag a democracy.)

Since the days of Ataturk, Turkey has been committed to being a secular state. The army, for good or bad, has been the guarantor of that commitment.

Erdogan has increasingly pushed toward 1) Islamism and 2) authoritarian rule. The ill-considered coup apparently was in opposition to both impulses.

And the coup likely will only intensify both impulses. Secularism will be discredited, allowing a further slide toward Islamism. And it likely will strengthen Erdogan's hand in continuing to enhance his own power and stifle civil liberties.

The coup is pretty much a disaster for the West. Turkey will be a less reliable NATO ally and may be come unstable, the last thing the West needs in the region. (Turkey has traditionally been a friend a Israel; Erdogan recently offered a rapprochement with Israel after some difficulties — but that might become problematic with increasing Islamicism in Turkey.) Increasing authoritarianism and Islamisicm in Turkey will make Turkey's entrance into the EU even less likely, which will increase the alienation between Turkey and the EU and NATO, which would result in the loss of what had been an important bastion against radical Islamism.

 

[rsr]

As to the OP:

Aside from psychics, no one saw this coming. Erdogan has been problematic, but his expansion of power had not generally been seen as egregiousness enough to justify a coup. Erdogan is not especially an ISIS sympathizer. (U.S. forces have continued to operate against ISIS from Turkish territory, after all) and he's been stuck in a vice between ISIS and Syria and Europe. The major problem between Erdogan and the West has been his battle against his own Kurdish rebels, which has made cooperation with the major anti-ISIS force, the Kurdish Peshmarga, a bit of a problem.

 

[MsGuidedAngel]

I say this do Not trust anything Turkey does or says, the Government is full of muslims who are Anti-Israel-Yisrael / Very Antisemitism / Anti-Christian and Jewish People!!

 

[rsr]

Please go elsewhere, because you have nothing to contribute to this discussion. Turkey is "full" of Muslims because it is a largely Muslim country. Turkey is traditionally supportive of Israel and, compared to the Saudi-inspired theocratic regimes, is relatively tolerant of its religious minorities.

 

[rsr]

And let's get this straight: Turkey will not recognize the supposed "caliphate." The Ottoman Turkes for four centuries ruled over the bulk of Islam and its successor (to Ataturk's dismay, perhaps) is not about to let these thuggish Muhammad-come-latelies present themselves as the legitimate heirs of the Prophet, peace be upon him.

 

[Rob_BW]

Normally I'm pretty resistant to conspiracy theories, but I'm beginning to think that Erdogan was behind everything from the start.

 

[InTheLight]

Normally I'm pretty resistant to conspiracy theories, but I'm beginning to think that Erdogan was behind everything from the start.

I was thinking the same thing.

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo

 

[MsGuidedAngel]

Please go elsewhere, because you have nothing to contribute to this discussion. Turkey is "full" of Muslims because it is a largely Muslim country. Turkey is traditionally supportive of Israel and, compared to the Saudi-inspired theocratic regimes, is relatively tolerant of its religious minorities.

The president of Turkey wants too bring back the evil Ottoman empire, because he sympathizer with the evil muslim brotherhood!!

Turkey does NOT support the Holy Land of Israel-Yisrael PERIOD!!

Am Yisrael Chai, Yahweh Yeshua Jesus Christ Adonai forevermore Israel-Yisrael!!

Happy Shabbat Shalom ( Peaceful Sabbath ) Everyone!!

Love Always and Shalom, YSIC \o/

Kristi Ann

 

[Smyth]

The silver lining to the increased Muslim militancy of Turkey is that it may keep Turkey out of the EU. If Turkey is admitted, it will flood the EU nations with Muslims. The rising water will become a destroying flood.

 

[Rob_BW]

I was thinking the same thing.

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo

The arrest of the 3000 judges is what got me. I don't think a list like that could be collated in a 24 hours during a coup. Erdogan had to have those guys on an enemies list already.

 

[Smyth]

With nearly 3000 judges arrested (which would have been in the planning for a while), Turkey's court system will grind to a near halt.

Curious, that this coup took place when the president was out of the country. Isn't capture/arrest of the president one of the goals of a coup? Or at least send him fleeing, rather than returning triumphantly.

Is there not even one government building the military held for more than a few hours? That doesn't sound like coup that any planner could have expected to win.

Who's the coup leader? Wouldn't a military coup piratically require a General as a leader? An old cleric in the US seems to be credited as the leader.

I agree, it's not so unlikely this was a phony coup.

 

[777]

Most likely that he did set a false flag to further purge Turkey of those secularists. Obama calling Erdogan "democratically elected" (just like Hitler!) and saying he supported the coup failure was another tell. And then the purge of 3700+ prosecutors and judges, as if they could all be involved in the fake coup. Erdogan is consolidating power via his "gift from Allah". There is no moderate or immoderate Islam. Islam is Islam and that's it, uh huh.

 

[rsr]

Yes, some things look fishy, but none of the objections prove it was a put-up deal.

Having the president out of the country in some ways simplifies things because (traditionally) he wouldn't be there to rally support. If it was a coup, the leaders were working from old models: seize some government offices and the TV stations. What they hadn't counted on, in particular, was the new technology that allowed Erdogan to bypass the traditional media and appeal directly to the people.

It's helpful to have senior officers in a coup, but it's often been done by junior officers. In 1936 a group of Japanese field grade and junior officers launched a bloody coup. It eventually failed, but the effect was to give the military more power over the civilian government and remove most of the officers who wanted to attack the Soviet Union and not expand in China (whose earlier invasion had been engineered by field grade officers.

Gaddafi, you may recall, was a colonel when a group of young officers successfully ousted the Libyan government in 1969.

 

[Smyth]

Having the president out of the country in some ways simplifies things because (traditionally) he wouldn't be there to rally support. If it was a coup, the leaders were working from old models: seize some government offices and the TV stations. What they hadn't counted on, in particular, was the new technology that allowed Erdogan to bypass the traditional media and appeal directly to the people.

If it were real coup attempt, that could be the case. But, why didn't they sever internet to the country? They want to control information, how could they overlook the internet? Turkey's internet is tightly controlled by the government and is ran by a monopoly, so it wouldn't be hard.

Even Jr. officers would need a clear leader, wouldn't they?

 

[Rob_BW]

Gaddafi, you may recall, was a colonel when a group of young officers successfully ousted the Libyan government in 1969.

I believe Gaddafi was only a captain at the time of the coup.

 

[Smyth]

Gaddafi, you may recall, was a colonel when a group of young officers successfully ousted the Libyan government in 1969.

I don't know what rank Gadaffi held before the coup, but I understand that he assigned the rank of colonel to himself, after he took power. Which would make colonel a higher rank than general. :/

 

[InTheLight]

Over 20 news outlets have been banned in Turkey since the "coup".

 

[rsr]

I don't know what rank Gadaffi held before the coup, but I understand that he assigned the rank of colonel to himself, after he took power. Which would make colonel a higher rank than general. :/

You're right. He was a captain before the coup. Afterward made himself colonel and eliminated every other officer above that rank.