TV Star Turned Baptist Minister

[revmwc]

As has been stated, you have been given articles and scriptures; you don't want to accept the meaning of those scriptures as they were originally written, in context.

Well let's see Paul is telling people who in Ephesus worshiped Godesses and had Priestesses not to have Priestesses but that men were to be the Spiritual authority. So Paul was in this case teaching against what was practiced. Think maybe He meant God's order was man created first to Have Spiritual authority in worship? Sounds a bit like it.

 

[annsni]

Annsni...



Well, of course you must stick with the "party line", but my hope is that you will...in time...choose to use the good mind that God has given you, and dig deeper into Gods rich gold mine of scriptural truth. It will bless you abundantly.



Actually, the scriptural material I posted for you makes very clear that the whole council of the scriptures..not just the shallow tidbits people rely on..makes clear the bankruptcy of the shallow "party line" view.

Dig deeper, Ann. The truth is evident.

I have dug and Scripture is clear. I follow God - not feminism.

 

[annsni]

Wow. Are you reading the same Bible Charles Spurgeon read?

"I feel it no small privilege to be the means of bearing God’s message to this congregation. It pleases me when I know that many gray-headed Believers, who know far more of experimental Truth than I can be supposed to know, have nevertheless been comforted by the message which my Master has sent to them by me. But what an honor to have a message to the Apostles! Oh, the power of Divine Grace! Mary, once a demoniac, becomes a preacher to preachers! I dub her Doctor of Divinity, indeed, for she has to instruct these mightiest of messengers in the faith! Note the message. Did ever man preach a better sermon than this woman preached? Had ever minister a more weighty text than this Magdalene had to handle—“I ascend unto My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God”? Angels told of the incarnation, but Magdalene told of the ascension. She must be made to do, alone, what a company of angels had been made to do before—to proclaim another step in the Savior’s pathway to redemption!"

And I disagree that she was preaching. She was stating what she saw. That is all. If this is preaching, then every single person on the planet is a preacher.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Arbo...

I'm not interested in links or articles from magazines. Book, chapter, and verse from Scripture which contradicts the requirement that a pastor must be the husband of one wife is what I'm asking for.

Translation....

"Dont confuse me with the truth. my mind is made up" :tonofbricks:


At least you admit it, I'll give you that.

 

[annsni]

Arbo...



Translation....

"Dont confuse me with the truth. my mind is made up" :tonofbricks:


At least you admit it, I'll give you that.

So you are saying that books and magazine articles are truth as opposed to Scripture?

 

[Arbo]

Arbo...



Translation....

"Dont confuse me with the truth. my mind is made up" :tonofbricks:


At least you admit it, I'll give you that.

Translation-
"I can't give him the Scripture he asks for. "

 

[Alive in Christ]

So you are saying that books and magazine articles are truth as opposed to Scripture?

Noooo

The articals are FLOODED with scripture that supports our view.

 

[Arbo]

As has been stated, you have been given articles and scriptures; you don't want to accept the meaning of those scriptures as they were originally written, in context.

Please explain to me in what context the requirement of a pastor to be the husband of one wife does not mean just that.

 

[revmwc]

Noooo

The articals are FLOODED with scripture that supports our view.

So why not just post the scriptural references instead of an article with someones opinion about it. Scripture should speak for itself.

 

[Jon-Marc]

Interesting. How common is it for a Baptist church to ordain a woman?

I've never heard of a Baptist church ordaining a woman, and it's not scriptural. I've also never heard of this woman, but then the names of most celebrities mean nothing to me.

 

[Alive in Christ]

So why not just post the scriptural references instead of an article with someones opinion about it. Scripture should speak for itself.

The scriptures do speak for themslves. We are still waiting for you guys to stop "parroting the party line" and "maintaining the status quo" and come to grips with the truth of the scriptures

 

[Arbo]

I've also never heard of this woman, but then the names of most celebrities mean nothing to me.

Count yourself lucky.:laugh:

 

[revmwc]

The scriptures do speak for themslves. We are still waiting for you guys to stop "parroting the party line" and "maintaining the status quo" and come to grips with the truth of the scriptures

Again please exegete not eisegete the following.

I give you the Exegetious with it.

Here it is in several versions with the text including the new living:


1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

NIV
12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.
13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

American standard
12 But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve;
14 and Adam was not beguiled, but the woman being beguiled hath fallen into transgression

NLT

12 I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly.
13 For God made Adam first, and afterward he made Eve.
14 And it was not Adam who was deceived by Satan. The woman was deceived, and sin was the result.

Then the Greek words for:
Suffer = Epitrepo
to turn to, transfer, commit, instruct, to permit, allow, give leave
Not = Ou
no, not; in direct questions expecting an affirmative answer
Woman = Gune
a woman of any age, whether a virgin, or married, or a widow
a wife, of a betrothed woman
Teach = Didasko
to teach, to hold discourse with others in order to instruct them, deliver didactic discourses, to be a teacher, to discharge the office of a teacher, conduct one's self as a teacher, to teach one, to impart instruction, instill doctrine into one, the thing taught or enjoined, to explain or expound a thing
to teach one something,

He continues nor to usurp or snatch the:
Authority = Authenteo
one who with his own hands kills another or himself, one who acts on his own authority, autocratic, an absolute master, to govern, exercise dominion over one

and it continues "over the man", so how would a woman who is a good, qualified teacher of the scriptures expound this and still show she is qualified to teach, to have Authenteo over a man to pastor men?

 

[Jerome]

Oops, where did you get the bulk of what you just posted? I sure hope all those interpretive definitions aren't "quotes"[Arbo] from a "book"[Annsni].

 

[revmwc]

Oops, where did you get the bulk of what you just posted? I sure hope all those interpretive definitions aren't "quotes"[Arbo] from a "book"[Annsni].

Me from the Bible several veersions and from Strongs concordence.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Again please exegete not eisegete the following.

I give you the Exegetious with it.

Here it is in several versions with the text including the new living:


1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

NIV
12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.
13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

American standard
12 But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve;
14 and Adam was not beguiled, but the woman being beguiled hath fallen into transgression

NLT

12 I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly.
13 For God made Adam first, and afterward he made Eve.
14 And it was not Adam who was deceived by Satan. The woman was deceived, and sin was the result.

Then the Greek words for:
Suffer = Epitrepo
to turn to, transfer, commit, instruct, to permit, allow, give leave
Not = Ou
no, not; in direct questions expecting an affirmative answer
Woman = Gune
a woman of any age, whether a virgin, or married, or a widow
a wife, of a betrothed woman
Teach = Didasko
to teach, to hold discourse with others in order to instruct them, deliver didactic discourses, to be a teacher, to discharge the office of a teacher, conduct one's self as a teacher, to teach one, to impart instruction, instill doctrine into one, the thing taught or enjoined, to explain or expound a thing
to teach one something,

He continues nor to usurp or snatch the:
Authority = Authenteo
one who with his own hands kills another or himself, one who acts on his own authority, autocratic, an absolute master, to govern, exercise dominion over one

and it continues "over the man", so how would a woman who is a good, qualified teacher of the scriptures expound this and still show she is qualified to teach, to have Authenteo over a man to pastor men?

Those passages of scripture are given by God for a reason. 2000 years ago the society of that day was EXTREMELY patriarcal in nature. Crazy things (to us today) took place. A women could be beaten for cutting her hair short. As a result, it was considered shamefull for a woman to have short hair. She was also expected to be subordinant to men ALWAYS. It was a cultural thing, and it could cause great problems if you didnt heed those rules. So...the women did.

Likewise, it was scandalous for a women to DARE to teach men ANYTHING.

Do we hold to that today? Of course not. (well, most of us dont)

Same thing with the passages of scripture you posted. It is not considerd "shamefull" at all for a women to be a teacher TODAY, in this society. And so, those passages of scripture you posted were VERY IMPORTANT back 2000 years ago, but they..obviously..do not have the same significance in the christian culture today, and thanks be to God that He is opening more and more eyes to this liberating truth.

Hope that helps you to understand.

 

[matt wade]

Those passages of scripture are given by God for a reason. 2000 years ago the society of that day was EXTREMELY patriarcal in nature. Crazy things (to us today) took place. A women could be beaten for cutting her hair short. As a result, it was considered shamefull for a woman to have short hair. She was also expected to be subordinant to men ALWAYS. It was a cultural thing, and it could cause great problems if you didnt heed those rules. So...the women did.

Likewise, it was scandalous for a women to DARE to teach men ANYTHING.

Do we hold to that today? Of course not. (well, most of us dont)

Same thing with the passages of scripture you posted. It is not considerd "shamefull" at all for a women to be a teacher TODAY, in this society. And so, those passages of scripture you posted were VERY IMPORTANT back 2000 years ago, but they..obviously..do not have the same significance in the christian culture today, and thanks be to God that He is opening more and more eyes to this liberating truth.

Hope that helps you to understand.

By the same token homosexuality is an accepted lifestyle today, so let's throw out that part of Scripture.

Mocking Christianity and Jesus Christ is an acceptable practice today, so let's cut that part out.

Evolution and the Big Bang are the acceptable theories of the day, so let's rewrite the first couple chapter of Genesis.

Let me know when you get done with your cult's new bible.

 

[revmwc]

Those passages of scripture are given by God for a reason. 2000 years ago the society of that day was EXTREMELY patriarcal in nature. Crazy things (to us today) took place. A women could be beaten for cutting her hair short. As a result, it was considered shamefull for a woman to have short hair. She was also expected to be subordinant to men ALWAYS. It was a cultural thing, and it could cause great problems if you didnt heed those rules. So...the women did.

Likewise, it was scandalous for a women to DARE to teach men ANYTHING.

Do we hold to that today? Of course not. (well, most of us dont)

Same thing with you passages of scripture you posted. It is not considerd "shamefull" at all for a women to be a teacher TODAY, in this

Society. And so, those passages of scripture you posted were VERY IMPORTANT back 2000 years ago, but they..obviously..do not have the same significance in the christian culture today, and thanks be to God that He is opening more and more eyes to this liberating truth.

Hope that helps you to understand.

This was written to Timothy in Ephesus, in Ephesus the goddess Diana was worshipped. With it came the priestesses of which Paul was giving instruction against their very culture. In 431 the christian church declared Mary the God-Bearer, calling her queen of Heaven, divine Virgin, Mother of God, Mother of All. So no the culture of Ephesus was not patriarchial at all it was quite the opposite. Paul was teaching against the very grain of their society in saying women are not to teach men.

 

[Arbo]

Oops, where did you get the bulk of what you just posted? I sure hope all those interpretive definitions aren't "quotes"[Arbo] from a "book"[Annsni].

I quoted nobody so far, but if a quote is what you want then,

I Timothy 3:1,2 (NKJV)

"This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work.
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach;"

Now what part of this allows for a woman to pastor a church? Cite Scripture, not commentators, books, or magazine articles.

...And without sarcasm if you please.

 

[Jerome]

LOL. Just a bit puzzled as some of you are chiding the citation of biblical commentary/exegesis, while another is specifically asking that it be used, even attempting to do it himself!