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Twin Truths: God’s Sovereignty and Man’s Responsibility

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percho

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And Jesus said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage; but those who are accounted worthy to attain to that age and (to attain) to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, for they cannot die any more, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:34-36 RSV

When were these, who are sons being sons of the resurrection, conceived as sons?

for ye did not receive a spirit of bondage again for fear, but ye did receive a spirit of adoption in which we cry, 'Abba -- Father.'
for the earnest looking out of the creation doth expect the revelation of the sons of God;
And not only so, but also we ourselves, having the first-fruit of the Spirit, we also ourselves in ourselves do groan, adoption expecting -- the redemption of our body; Rom 8:15,19,23 YLT

Is the redemption of our body the same as being sons of the resurrection? Is that when the revelation of the sons of God takes place? When were they conceived as sons?

we also ourselves in ourselves do groan, adoption expecting -- the redemption of our body; < Is that, a being born, thought? > we also ourselves in ourselves do groan, adoption expecting -- the redemption of our body;

Romans 8:21,22 YLT that also the creation itself shall be set free from the servitude of the corruption to the liberty of the glory of the children of God; for we have known that all the creation doth groan together, and doth travail in pain together till now.

Is all of creation awaiting the birth, the revelation of the sons of God, the being sons of the resurrection?
 
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Martin Marprelate

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Silverhair said:
To bad that is not what the bible say. The elect are the ones that believe. But you won't accept that as you are to committed to you calvinism and thus ignore the bible.
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The elect are those whom God has elected and given to the Son to redeem. They are elected to faith and salvation (2 Thessalonians 2:13), so they are certainly those who believe. But to say that the elect are those who believe is to put the cart before the horse. Those who believe are the elect, loved by God from all eternity and drawn to Him with lovingkindness (Jeremiah 31:3 etc.).
 
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MB

Well-Known Member
SovereignGrace said:
So, we have not been chosen by God?
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If scripture doesn't say Gentiles are elect then they are not elect. Not to mention election does not mean a person will be saved no matter what. We are saved according to our faith not election.
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Can you show where God elected us? because if He had then He would have told us this. Yet He did not tell us this.

MB
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
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MB said:
If scripture doesn't say Gentiles are elect then they are not elect. Not to mention election does not mean a person will be saved no matter what. We are saved according to our faith not election.
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Can you show where God elected us? because if He had then He would have told us this. Yet He did not tell us this.

MB
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Ephesians 1:4
Romans 8:28-30
2 Timothy 2:10
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14
1 Thessalonians 1:4-5
Colossians 3:12-14

I’m sure you already have a built in response. And election DOES mean we will be saved.
 
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MB

Well-Known Member
SovereignGrace said:
Ephesians 1:4
Romans 8:28-30
2 Timothy 2:10
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14
1 Thessalonians 1:4-5
Colossians 3:12-14

I’m sure you already have a built in response. And election DOES mean we will be saved.
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If you can prove the election of Gentiles beyond a shadow of a doubt be my guest. However a choosing and election are not the same because of different purposes. One to be a special people unto God, and the other is choosing to salvation. With out the different spellings there is confusion. Calvinist claim they are the same.
MB
 
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MB

Well-Known Member
SovereignGrace said:
Ephesians 1:4
Romans 8:28-30
2 Timothy 2:10
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14
1 Thessalonians 1:4-5
Colossians 3:12-14

I’m sure you already have a built in response. And election DOES mean we will be saved.
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Eph 1:4 is Paul speaking with Jews not Gentiles. He was jailed for bringing Gentiles in to the synagogue tell me were the Gentiles out side listening to Pauls letter being read.
Rom 8:28-30 Notice that who Paul was speaking about is all in past tense so you are not included.
2 tim 2:10 Is Paul speaking about the Jews.
2 Thes.2:13-14 and Tthes1:4-5 are talking about Jews
Col 3:12-14Is telling us to act as the elect not be them.
MB
 
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Martin Marprelate

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Site Supporter
MB said:
If you can prove the election of Gentiles beyond a shadow of a doubt be my guest. However a choosing and election are not the same because of different purposes. One to be a special people unto God, and the other is choosing to salvation. With out the different spellings there is confusion. Calvinist claim they are the same.
MB
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The Greek word eklektos is translated seven times in the KJV as 'chosen' and 16 times as 'elect.' Go figure.
 
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