Two Epidemiologists Debate Our Response to SARS-CoV-2

[alexander284]

I think we're beginning to see firsthand evidence of the racial prejudice being directed toward Asians by certain individuals in the United States, who tend to think in terms of that so-called "Chinese virus."

 

[Use of Time]

You think too much of yourself, your posts, and the impact of what is said on this forum. Further more you are not a reliable source. You are more about fear and panic then you are reasonable consideration. Your left wing politics has been obvious. Really it just looks like you are more about criticism of conservatives wrapped up in feigned worry about how anyone views it all.

Good luck with that.

Then refute it if you can or get out. That’s the point of a message board. This post is nothing but hatred end of story. You go around telling everyone their wrong but never back it up. This is an unChristian post and you should be ashamed of yourself and your witness for trying to peddle divisive hatred based on politics. Comparison of the flu vs Covid is not a partisan issue for crying out loud. Nothing Golden Dragon has said is contentious.

He’s not causing fear and panic he’s trying to spread awareness. In case you haven’t noticed, there are some that still don’t have the memo that this is a big deal.

So either make yourself part of the solution or just stay away with your petty negativity and divisiveness.

 

[Gold Dragon]

I think we're beginning to see firsthand evidence of the racial prejudice being directed toward Asians by certain individuals in the United States, who tend to think in terms of that so-called "Chinese virus."

Nah. I know it is not about race with Revmitchell. We have a history and I am the enemy to him and will always be that way.

I've corrected so many of his sources that misinform, mislead and misrepresent the truth when compared with primary source material that he thinks I have something against him personally.

 

[alexander284]

He’s provided interesting and useful information without any attitude. All you have provided are barbs and distractions which is shameful of a man claiming to be a pastor. Nothing in this thread warranted your response and that hostility.

You took the words right out of my mouth. And it's because of pastors and "reverends" like this that "the name of the Lord is blasphemed among the Gentiles."

 

[alexander284]

You think too much of yourself, your posts, and the impact of what is said on this forum. Further more you are not a reliable source. You are more about fear and panic then you are reasonable consideration. Your left wing politics has been obvious. Really it just looks like you are more about criticism of conservatives wrapped up in feigned worry about how anyone views it all.

Good luck with that.

Apparently, anyone who doesn't join in with your worship of men who agree with your political views is a target for your personal attacks.

This is, indeed, shameful behavior, coming from someone who claims to be not only a Christian, but a pastor or "reverend."

 

[alexander284]

Nah. I know it is not about race with Revmitchell. We have a history and I am the enemy to him and will always be that way.

I've corrected so many of his sources that misinform, mislead and misrepresent the truth when compared with primary source material that he thinks I have something against him personally.

Ah, I see. You've basically embarrassed him so many times with the truth, that he has decided his only course of action is to become (essentially) a bully.

 

[Use of Time]

He doesn’t hang in there long enough to converse about anything. He just does his drive by one liners and disappears. He’s a political information operative, nothing more.

 

[church mouse guy]

They agreed that extensive testing now would be the best route to understand what we are really dealing with where so that the best decisions can be made regarding the next move. But did they explain why we cannot do such testing, other than to say we don't have kits?

Neither of them addressed the main underlying problem, namely the extreme reliance on foreign manufacturing of medical equipment, supplies, and pharmaceuticals, and that the reliance is mostly on Communist China. Had we the manufacturing infrastructure, we would be far more likely to be able to gear up quickly to meet demand in such a situation, rather than commandeering and converting other industries.

Pharmaceutical corporations such as Lilly here in Indianapolis have extensive manufacturing facilities in China. While inner city Indianapolis people struggle to find jobs, American companies such as Lilly, which owns Indianapolis as a company town, are looking to save money by cheap labor. I don't think that we can trust Chinese products at all.

 

[church mouse guy]

I think we're beginning to see firsthand evidence of the racial prejudice being directed toward Asians by certain individuals in the United States, who tend to think in terms of that so-called "Chinese virus."

It started in China and China lied and said that the US Army started it. Everyone was calling it the Chinese Virus before that anyway, including all the Democrats.

 

[church mouse guy]

Nah. I know it is not about race with Revmitchell. We have a history and I am the enemy to him and will always be that way.

I've corrected so many of his sources that misinform, mislead and misrepresent the truth when compared with primary source material that he thinks I have something against him personally.

Oh, you hate everyone automatically. Liberals like you don't have anything against anyone personally because you never know anyone personally. I think that you call it tribal, don't you?

 

[Revmitchell]

mm

 

[Use of Time]

CMG has become unhinged lately. Even more so with the constant running around telling everyone their leftists communists.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Oh, you hate everyone automatically. Liberals like you don't have anything against anyone personally because you never know anyone personally. I think that you call it tribal, don't you?

I understand Revmitchell’s animosity. But I feel I was always gentler with you cmg and we had some civil conversations. Why do you have to be that way?

Tribalism was what I was describing the US political landscape was like (how long ago was that? 3 years?), and it is even more so now. The idea being that truth is determined by tribe instead of fact/evidence. Many countries have gone that way and Covid19 is a good litmus test of how dysfunctional tribalism can make our countries. When something that does not care about political positions and narratives comes into the picture and disrupts everything and tribalism paralyzes coordinated action to solve the problem or that there even is a problem, everyone loses.

 

[church mouse guy]

CMG has become unhinged lately. Even more so with the constant running around telling everyone their leftists communists.

Hey, you know that you are a liberal.

 

[church mouse guy]

I understand Revmitchell’s animosity. But I feel I was always gentler with you cmg and we had some civil conversations. Why do you have to be that way?

Tribalism was what I was describing the US political landscape was like (how long ago was that? 3 years?), and it is even more so now. The idea being that truth is determined by tribe instead of fact/evidence. Many countries have gone that way and Covid19 is a good litmus test of how dysfunctional tribalism can make our countries. When something that does not care about political positions and narratives comes into the picture and disrupts everything and tribalism paralyzes coordinated action to solve the problem or that there even is a problem, everyone loses.

Well, you only post the Democrat point of view on politics so I think that your sympathies are with globalism, which is very unpopular here in the rust belt where we paid for everything. Globalism is dead; the Chinese virus killed it. China is a aggressive brutal country--just as the people of Tibet, or Myanmar, or Viet Nam, or Hong Kong, or the Philippines or even African nations. Nixon tried to do business with the Chinese; he failed. They have cheated and robbed us. I don't want anything Chinese products ever again. Period.

 

[Benjamin]

You know, its kind of a shame for me to have to witness a couple liberals demonstrate that they have more common sense about such a vitally important matter than a dyed-in-the-wool conservative, but it is what it is…

 

[Use of Time]

You know, its kind of a shame for me to have to witness a couple liberals demonstrate that they have more common sense about such a vitally important matter than a dyed-in-the-wool conservative, but it is what it is…

I’m no liberal but I’ll take the point. I think it just shows that this shouldn’t be a political issue. The virus doesn’t care what your political motivations or affiliations are. The science and medicine are what they are. How everyone chooses to accept it is a personal decision. Not a political one. Keep up the good work Benjamin. I think much more highly of you during all of this and it shows that I might have misjudged you in the past.

 

[Aaron]

20% of confirmed cases.

Those not tested are not included in confirmed cases. There are lots of unconfirmed influenza cases every year too.

You need to compare apples to apples.

Try to follow along.

Confirmed cases means testing was done. When you only test those who are seeking healthcare, then of course the hospitalization rate is going to be greatly inflated. If you haven't conducted testing of scientific samples of the public at large, as is done for Influenza, you have no real idea of the number of actual cases of COVID-19 there are.

You're implying 20% of the people with the virus end up hospitalized. And that's simply not true. Those with symptoms are merely the tip of the iceberg of the number of people who are actually infected.

Some suggest the number of true cases may be underestimated by a factor of 19. (skip to 5:33 in the video)

 

[Gold Dragon]

Try to follow along.

Confirmed cases means testing was done. When you only test those who are seeking healthcare, then of course the hospitalization rate is going to be greatly inflated. If you haven't conducted testing of scientific samples of the public at large, you have no real idea of the number of actual cases there are.

yes. That is what I said too. There are lots of unconfirmed cases of covid 19, just like there are lots of unconfirmed cases of influenza every year as well.

But you're trying to say that 20% of the people with the virus end up hospitalized. And that's simply not true. Those with symptoms are merely the tip of the iceberg of the number of people who are actually infected.

Some suggest the number of true cases may be underestimated by a factor of 19.

No that is not what I said. I specifically said 20% of confirmed cases, twice.

It really doesn’t matter that we don’t know the true number of asymptomatic undetected cases. If we know the rate of confirmed cases that need hospitalization, we know how fast the system will be overwhelmed.

We already have lots of historical data about how often influenza overwhelms our health system which is close to 0% of the time.

 

[Aaron]

yes. That is what I said too. There are lots of unconfirmed cases of covid 19, just like there are lots of unconfirmed cases of influenza every year as well.



No that is not what I said. I specifically said 20% of confirmed cases, twice.

It really doesn’t matter that we don’t know the true number of asymptomatic undetected cases. If we know the rate of confirmed cases that need hospitalization, we know how fast the system will be overwhelmed.

We already have lots of historical data about how often influenza overwhelms our health system which is close to 0% of the time.

The hospitalization rate of Influenza is calculated with the total number of ACTUAL cases. Unless that number is known for COVID-19, you can't know it's hospitalization rate. You're citing a meaningless number.