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Featured Two principle NT issues.

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by 37818, Mar 1, 2020.

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  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Twice in John 1:1-2 He is referred to as "with God." Someone beside God, being someone other than God. [The Son of God]. So instead of being both "with God" and "was God." He is a or the unique God with the [true] God the Father. How is that better?
     
    #161 37818, Mar 6, 2020
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure you understood this issue of being then the unique Son in appearing as G.d (like in Genesis 12:7) as opposed to not becoming the unique Son until He changed to become a man, Luke 1:35. 1) He was always the Son. Versus. 2) He only became the Son at His incarnation.
     
    #162 37818, Mar 6, 2020
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The Greek is the same.
     
    #163 37818, Mar 6, 2020
  4. Origen

    Origen Active Member

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    I understand what you mean. As I point out above basically the same term is used in John 3:16, 18, and 1 John 4:9. Also μονογενής may stand on it own as a reference to the only-begotten Son John 1:14. Thus the concept is still found in the Johannine literature. Nothing would be lost.
     
    #164 Origen, Mar 6, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2020
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  5. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    Thank you for the clarification

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
     
    #165 McCree79, Mar 6, 2020
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  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Actually, He was and is God Himself, not someone other than God, but the member of the Godhead not known as the Father!
     
    #166 Yeshua1, Mar 7, 2020
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    He was eternally God the Son, who when Incarnated became the Son of God...
     
    #167 Yeshua1, Mar 7, 2020
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Seems that we are straining hard here to try to point out things that really do not make a real difference...
     
    #168 Yeshua1, Mar 7, 2020
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The Persons are equally God, no subordination as God. But as Persons there is subordination. Not everyone agrees on this or even understand this the same way.
    Gibberish. Either the Son was always the Son or became the Son in the incaration. These are two views. I hold the Son was always the Son, so I hold that "the unique Son" is what John 1:18 says, and that "unique God" reading is error. We disagree on this, fine. The constant witness is 100%. The reading I understand to be the God breathed word in this instance is 99% of the evidence. Not the 00.4% of the Greek text, which I see as a big problem places falsehood as the word of God. We do not agree. And yes I know I am in a minority of Christians.
     
    #169 37818, Mar 7, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2020
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    There was a temporary subordination of Jesus to he father while here on the earth , but no eternal subordination...
    Before he incarnated, he was only God the Son, but when he became Jesus the Christ, then was known as the Son of God.
     
    #170 Yeshua1, Mar 7, 2020
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Well we do not agree. Twice prior to the Word's incarnation He is said to be "with God." If that is not a subordination being someone other than God, explain to me why you do not understand that to be the case.
    Also 1 Corinthains 15:28, ". . . And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." Where the Son is for the remaining eternity in subordination to God. And in this He the Son is still God too. Hebews 1:3.
    Repeating gibberish. What is your simple proof that He is the eternal Son before His incarnation from holy Scripture?
     
    #171 37818, Mar 7, 2020
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    He was God the Son, and he always existed with the Father, and was always also God!
     
    #172 Yeshua1, Mar 7, 2020
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Saying that claim does not make it so. Prove simply from Holy Scripture the Person, the Word was always the Son.

    My proof verse is John 1:18 where He is called "the unique Son" who appears as YHWH in the OT.
     
    #173 37818, Mar 7, 2020
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The only begotten of the Father, full of glory and grace!
     
    #174 Yeshua1, Mar 7, 2020
  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    That reference refers to the "unique" one who was incarnated and does not prove that He did not become the Son at His incarnation. John 1:14 being the Scripture.
     
    #175 37818, Mar 7, 2020
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    In His deity was always the Son, and now in His humanity now also the Son of God!
     
    #176 Yeshua1, Mar 7, 2020
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