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dianetavegia
Guest
Kelly! Bro. Joshua very clearly stated his enjoyment of one form of sodomy on another of his posts. Sue is not out of line.
Diane
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Two Questions
- Thread starter Rev. Joshua
- Start date
Rev. Joshua
<img src=/cjv.jpg>
Yes Diane, like everyone else I know, I think oral sex is a good thing. (That line was a crack at the misuse of "sodomy" here and the archaic use of "sodomite".)
Sue - I don't think you are thinking clearly here. The whole point of the post is that I am not leading them to Hell. I may or may not be wrong about that particular sin (as our Southern Baptist ancestors were clearly wrong about the sin of slavery and as some fundamentalist baptists still argue about whether or not drinking alcohol is a sin) but I am still preaching the gospel.
One can be wrong about whether or not something is a sin and still be saved.
Joshua
Sue - I don't think you are thinking clearly here. The whole point of the post is that I am not leading them to Hell. I may or may not be wrong about that particular sin (as our Southern Baptist ancestors were clearly wrong about the sin of slavery and as some fundamentalist baptists still argue about whether or not drinking alcohol is a sin) but I am still preaching the gospel.
One can be wrong about whether or not something is a sin and still be saved.
Joshua
Rev. Joshua
<img src=/cjv.jpg>
Jailminister - Matthew Henry isn't exactly a significant commentator outside of a very narrow circle.
Joshua
Joshua
Jailminister
New Member
Matthew Henry's is accepted by a narrow bunch. Well that is your opinion.
Mat 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mat 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
stubbornkelly
New Member
Diane, Joshua summed up what I was getting at. There is no need to justify heterosexual sodomy, as "the marriage bed is undefiled." Maybe I was wrong, but I don't think enjoying sex with his wife was what Sue was accusing Joshua of . . .
Matthew Henry is welcome to his commentary, but biblical commentary is not replacement for the Bible. I believe my views on the bible to be sound and reasonable, the result of years of biblical study, prayer, and meditation. Such study would not be possible if one's head were in sand.JesusisGod2
New Member
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Hello Johnv,
As far as any specific reference to the marriage bed in this act being wrong scripturaly, I admit I need to do further study on it.
But I will give a reference that you might want to consider,
Romans 14:23 "And he that doubteth is condemned if he eat,because he eateth not of faith; for whateveris not of faith is sin."
I know this is refering the eating of foods but the principle is the same. Also read 1 cor 8:9-13
this again refers to that if something is not done in complete faith that it is sin, and in this case we sacrifice what we can rightfully be justified before God as O.K. for the sake of our bretheren.
Now as I had said I do need further study on the marriage bed and admit I could be wrong. but what I do know is that my conscience doesnt justify it as O.K. and therefore it is wrong to me and anyone else who thinks along the same lines as I do.
And if we teach others that it is O.K. when thier conscience tells them otherwise, then we cause them to sin should they be emboldened to do so.
just a thought, and I do thank you for showing me that I need to do further study on what exactly is sacred in the marriage bed, is it all things go? or are we to use discretion.
God Bless!
Jailminister
New Member
Like I said Johnv, You would not believe anybody but yourself. When your head is in the sand you can't hear anyone else.
I understand what you're saying, and let me clarify by sayng that just because Mr & Mrs Smith might engage in sodomy in the marriage bed without hesitation, it does not mean that you or anyone else must. If you have reservations about engaging in something like oral sex in marriage, then you certainly should not feel like it's something you must do. No two married couples have the same likes and dislikes in the marriage bed. Typically, they're not things we openly discuss, because they're private. But I think it's important for us as Christian spouses, or future spouses, to know that God gives us options, and that we're welcome to usilize those options without our spouses are we see fit, so long as they remain in the marriage bed.
I hope that helps a little
stubbornkelly
New Member
Just a matter of theory, here. Not everything our conscience tells us is wrong is sinful. Things aren't made sinful (or sin-lacking) because we think they are, so teaching that something that is okay really is okay (I hope that made sense) does not cause one who might say, "hey, I read up on it, and it's true - it's not sinful," and then partake of said whatever to sin, even if their conscience might have earlier told them otherwise.
We can't just decide for ourselves what is and isn't sinful. Thinking it's sin doesn't make it so, and we are wrong to perpetuate that idea.
But remember the opposite is true as well. Just because our conscience tells us something is okay, that does not mean it is. In the matter of homosexuality, a conscience may be perfectly fine with it, but that conscience has been trained by Scripture. Scripture is our supreme guide, not our conscience. A conscience is only valuable when it is in tune with Scripture.
stubbornkelly
New Member
Absolutely. As I referenced with "sin-lacking."
JesusisGod2
New Member
Just a matter of theory, here. Not everything our conscience tells us is wrong is sinful.
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Response:
Hi Stubbornkelly (Like the name) and thanks for your input.
I do realize that our conscience is not to be our final authority on what constitutes sin, the scripture is. and I also believe that the scripture should always be consulted (even on things we might think are right, as verification)
But the scripture does tell us that anything that is not of faith is sin.
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Things aren't made sinful (or sin-lacking) because we think they are, so teaching that something that is okay really is okay (I hope that made sense)
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Response:
yes it makes a lot of sense but I am not convinced that it is really O.K. and do admit I need more study on it.
I also admit that I could be dead wrong and therefore will be careful what I say on the subject of the marriage bed until God shows me otherwise, or at least not be dogmatic on it.
But dont forget that Paul also mentions that our conscience could become "seared as with a branding iron" and become dead to Gods promptings in our conscience.
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Quote:
does not cause one who might say, "hey, I read up on it, and it's true - it's not sinful," and then partake of said whatever to sin, even if their conscience might have earlier told them otherwise.
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Response:
even then we should be fully convinced of God and not by what we think we understand. sometimes if we try hard enough we can twist scripture to justify just about anything, which is why I believe God gave us a conscience in the first place.
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We can't just decide for ourselves what is and isn't sinful. Thinking it's sin doesn't make it so, and we are wrong to perpetuate that idea. </font>[/QUOTE]==================================================
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Excellant point and I will heed your advice and I thank you for your response and I do stand corrected that I need further study on it. as far as the marriage bed goes.
as far as homosexual behavior, the bible is very clear on it, as well as sex outside the marriage bed. and God does not reconize same sex marriage.
again thanks for your input.
God bless
JesusisGod2
New Member
Just a matter of theory, here. Not everything our conscience tells us is wrong is sinful. Things aren't made sinful (or sin-lacking) because we think they are, so teaching that something that is okay really is okay (I hope that made sense) does not cause one who might say, "hey, I read up on it, and it's true - it's not sinful," and then partake of said whatever to sin, even if their conscience might have earlier told them otherwise.
We can't just decide for ourselves what is and isn't sinful. Thinking it's sin doesn't make it so, and we are wrong to perpetuate that idea. </font>[/QUOTE]
JesusisGod2
New Member
what happened with the above? I dont know what i did but i surely didnt write it twice
There's nothing sinful about skydiving, but my conscience tells me it's not for me. Someone else might do it, but that doesn't mean it's a sin for them to. Likewise, if one married couple chooses to incorporate oral sex into the marriage bed, but another couple isn't comfortable with it, that doesn't mean it's a sin, it's just not right for them.
Answers:
1. No.
2. YES! I really believe in the Holy Spirit.
3. YEs. Which brings me to a question on my own.
What makes a person "gay". Not what/who caused them to be gay, but what defines them as gay. (My dh and I have had this discussion- and I was wondering what others thoughts are on this)
A little background to help with clarification: A man that both my husband and I were friends with "confessed" to us one day that he was gay. He had NEVER had sex (home or hetero), but only struggled with "thoughts" and was trying to overcome them and not be "gay" anymore.
So was he really gay? Or just some guy having "thoughts"???
Jailminister
New Member
Dina Youstated and asked: He had NEVER had sex (home or hetero), but only struggled with "thoughts" and was trying to overcome them and not be "gay" anymore. So was he really gay? Or just some guy having "thoughts"???
Dina, we are all sinners. We are all in need of a Saviour. If your friend was involved with porn before he was saved, that doees not mean that he will not be tempted after salvation, but it is what he does with the temptation. If this friend is saved and has some sinful thoughts, but does not succumb to the temptation, then he has most of the battle won.
Let me give you a personal example. First I am saved. Next I enjoy sweets(and lots of them), however overeating is a sin also and I am also a diabetic, so by eating lots of sweets I am sinning. So I get tempted by satan, but I have learned that it is better for me to say no. I have fallen on some occasions, but the Holy Spirit always reminds me and then i know guilt, which leads to repentance. It is that same way for any sin or temptation. I promise you satan knows our weaknesses, but God made a way for us to escape the temptation.
Dina, we are all sinners. We are all in need of a Saviour. If your friend was involved with porn before he was saved, that doees not mean that he will not be tempted after salvation, but it is what he does with the temptation. If this friend is saved and has some sinful thoughts, but does not succumb to the temptation, then he has most of the battle won.
Let me give you a personal example. First I am saved. Next I enjoy sweets(and lots of them), however overeating is a sin also and I am also a diabetic, so by eating lots of sweets I am sinning. So I get tempted by satan, but I have learned that it is better for me to say no. I have fallen on some occasions, but the Holy Spirit always reminds me and then i know guilt, which leads to repentance. It is that same way for any sin or temptation. I promise you satan knows our weaknesses, but God made a way for us to escape the temptation.