Two Salvations?

Except that Scripture gives NO indication that one is to prove they are saved. That theory does not line up with the rest of Scripture.

Works do not prove on is spiritually saved. That is a backloading of works into spiritual salvation. Because what one is saying is that one has to believe in Christ and produce works to be saved and that's not what the Bible teaches.

The Bible teaches that you must believe in Jesus and you will be saved no doubt about it. Then It shows us that we were saved unto good works, but there is no guarantee in Scripture that the good works will be done.

If good works are guaranteed then why are there warnings for not doing them? Why are their encouragments and exhortations to do good works if we are going to do them.

How does that square with those Scriptures where servants are shown to not have good works?

It just doesn't line up. Way too many holes.

 

Exactly! This is not talking about being saved. It's in the present tense; it's ongoing action; This passage is talking about works! We're not saved by our works, we don't stay saved by our works, we don't prove we're saved by our works; works are works are works, and works is what this passage is talking about!

Elizabeth and Zechariah were just or righteous because they walked in the ordinances of the Lord.

 

OK, although this has already been posted repeatedly, somehow, Diggin missed it, so I'll post it again. The children of Israel were already in the Promised Land before they ever set out:

Genesos 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

The Passover lamb was slain and all got to partake; they were saved. But, the blood was shed only for the firstborn.

Then, they set out on their journey through the wilderness. Shortly after setting out, they were baptized in the Red Sea. This was the first act of obedience.

They wandered throught the wilderness for forty years (remember, they were already in the Promised land and had already partaken of the death of the lamb) on their journey to the Land Flowing with Milk and Honey. However, because of unfaithfulness, most of them perished in the wilderness. They lost the opportunity to cross over and enter into the better part of their inheritance; a picture of the Kingdom. Even Moses fell short. Would you say he's a picture of an unsaved person?

 

As to the saving of the soul, massive amounts of Scripture has been posted on the subject. Have you even looked at it? If so, why have you not refuted any of it? Your entire argument seems to be centered on, "Because Diggin said so!"

But, just in case you missed it the first many times it was posted, here's a link to a sermon that I gave recently. You don't even have to read it unless you want to. You can click the link and download the pdf or the mp3:

Salvation of the Soul

Any time you see the word "apollumi" (usually translated as "perish"), it always has to do with losing something that you have.

Diggin, do you think that you can lose your everlasting salvation?

 

I have said this before, I placed my faith and trust in Christ Jesus and His shed blood. At that moment, He gave me eternal life at that time, and no one and nothing can take that away from me.

Furthermore, I have been promised entrance into His kingdom because of that trust.

I place all who would preach kingdom exclusion as false prophets and the Word of God backs me up on that as I have given Scripture to show this over and over.

 

Imagine the Israelites, when told to go up and take the land, they just stood there and said "I have been promised that God is going to give the land to me. I don't have to fight the giants." That is essentially what you are saying. Yes we have promises that we will inherit the kingdom, but these are not unconditional promises. God will give us everything we need to fulfill the conditions, but we must then go and fight the giants to obtain the promise.

 

This is exactly what we've been saying.

Well, Scripture does promise that if we endure to the end and that if we are faithful (works), we will have an abundant entrance into the Kingdom. But, Scripture also promises that we can lose that, or even be chastened for the works of the flesh.

These passages are generally the ones that those such as DPT and others use to show that spiritual salvation can be forfeited and you can become unsaved.

Ironic that they see the warnings, and you are blind to them.

 

I see Scripture to show we lose rewards, but none to say we lose entrance to the kingdom I see Scripture to show we are heirs to the kingdom, but none to say we will lose that inheritance.

Again, kingdom exclusion is a false doctrine preached by false prophets.

 

Because you say so? Biblical support?

 

In the same passage that Jesus is speaking of the broad and narrow roads, He tells some that He never knew them; that tells me they that are on the broad road to destruction are not saved.

Christ would never tell the saved He never knew them.

 

Really?
That anything like Christ would never call one of His own, "Get thee behind me Satan..."?

Be VERY careful what You say Christ would never do.

 

av1611,

If Christ saved someone and then told them He never knew them, He would be a liar. My Lord Jesus is not a liar.

Those He tells 'I never knew you' were never saved.

 

[Moderator's note: Edited to remove an offensive word choice.] :thumbs:

 

Amen, and Amen!!!!!

Thank God, I will never hear that, because I have a daily relationship with my savior. He knows me now... and if he ever says he doesn't he would be a liar.... And God cannot lie, sooooo I will never hear that.

I feel sorry for all those that are still trying to work their way to Heaven, because if it depends on them, they will split HEll wide open, and then will be thrown into the LOF.

People working their way to Heaven, or even the kingdom is like someone pushing a car uphill, when all they have to do is get in and let it take them up the hill.

 

Let's look at their verse 'Faith without works is dead'.

While this is true, we must remember it is not our works, but Christ's. Christ did the work needed to purchase our salvation on the cross.

John 6:29 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Now, we must do one work in order for that salvation to be ours, and that is to believe on Him (Jesus Christ) whom He (God) hath sent.)

Those are the only works needed. Nothing more.

Faith can be in many things, but it is a dead faith if it is not in Christ's works and our believing on Christ.

 

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
(9) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
(10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
(11) And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.


That is past tense... that means that since we are washed, we will get in the kingdom.....

 

Amen tim!

Precious Words to affirm our place in the kingdom!

 

That would be no because the Bible says so. The Biblical support is the verse. Do you need me to quote chapter and verse for you?

He's speaking to saved individuals about what could happen to themselves. What more support do you need?

That's sure not what Scripture tells us. Some will cry Lord, Lord on that day and Christ will tell them He did not know them. If we deny Christ, Christ will deny us. Those verses are again spoken to saved people in regard to themselves not lost people. I know it just slaps church tradition in the face, but we can either believe the Bible or we can make the Bible say what we want it to say. I will continue to choose letting the Bible say what the Bible says.

Amen!

According to you not to Scripture. Again I will trust Scripture.

Way to back your claim up with Scripture Rev. Mitchell. That's pathetic that you would come on here and just lash out at someone just becuase they don't agree with you, but that's your signature. You can't defend your own position so you just speak evil of those that don't agree with you.

Come back when you can deal with Scripture.

If you all would stop trying to combine the kingdom and eternal salvation these things could make a whole lot more sense, but as long as you equate the kingdom with eternal salvation it's not going to happen.

Of course He knows us. He knows everyone. So is He lying when He tells a lost person that He doesn't know them even though He really does, because He knows everyone and everything. So is He a liar? Of course not. Context...context...context.

Works is the context of these not knowing a person passages. He's not denying someone as to them being a child, but as to that person being a faithful servant.

Tim with this statement you obviously don't have a clue as to what we have been talking about.

Wow. . . so now we've gone from false prophets, to we aren't even saved. Boy that is pretty presumptious of you to claim to know whether or not we are saved, especially since everyone of us have faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ as the Lamb of God, Who died and shed His blood as a substitute for us a sinner. Awfully bold of you to say a person that is biblically saved is actually not.

Well in a way that is correct, because all we have to do is die to self and allow the Spirit to work in us. That's what we have been saying all along. We aren't trying to work our way to heaven as you falsey presume.

The work for entrance to the kingdom is done on our behalf if we die to self, the problem is that not all Christians are dying to self, but we have a large portion that is still living their lives for them and not for the Lord. That's what we are talking about.

Except that is not the works in view in the book of James. So the rest of your post holds not Scriptural water or backing.

Again you are cherry picking a verse of Scripture and trying to apply it to all Christians.

What about the verse of Scripture where Jesus tells Peter that if Peter (a saved individual) doesn't allow Jesus to wash him he will have no part with Him?

Peter says then wash me all over, but Jesus said you have already been washed, but have need of a partial washing.

The washing is not over until we die or until the Lord returns. And guess what? If we don't allow the Lord to wash us then we will have no part "wtih" Him, not "in" Him.

It's just a shame that we can't let Scripture speak for Itself.

 

Boy, are you deceived.

If they had been saved, it would mean Christ knew them. If they lost their salvation, He would have said, 'I knew you, but you messed up.'

No, He said, 'I never knew you.'

These were lying to Him trying to weasel their way into the kingdom, but they were never 'in Christ'.

1 John 2:19 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.