Two Salvations?

I guess if you stuck some wings on them and shot them out of a cannon they would fly for a little while :laugh:

That sounds really good, but there's just ZERO Scriptural evidence for it. It's just not there. If it is please show it to me, becuase you'll be the first to do so.

Well folks have been mis-using the "new" creation thing for a while now. Yes you are a new creation. You are neither Jew nor Greek, neither male not female you are a part of the one new man in Christ. That doesn't mean your old sin nature is gone and you stop desiring to sin right off the bat.

If that were so then people would be born mature. But we know the Bible teaches us quite the opposite. People are born immature and have to be taught/discipled.

You have to be taught the will of God and to desire the will of God. If your statement were true the disciples wouldn't have had a lick of problems with Christ telling them He was going to die and go away. But they fought him at every corner, especially Peter (Jesus even called him Satan).

So are you telling me that the disciples weren't even saved?

Tim there's just no support for what you are saying. Again if there is please show it.

Again that's not what my Bible says. My Bible says by grace you have been saved through faith and that's it. It doesn't say you have been saved by grace through faith only if you don't want to sin any more.

It says believe in Jesus and you will be saved. That's it. It doesn't say believe in Jesus and then prove yourself by not desire to sin anymore and you will be saved.

It just really cracks me up that we get accused of preaching a works based salvation and then you all come along and backload eternal salvation with works and continue to make accusations.

Works or the desire for works has NO impact on eternal salvation. NONE. ZERO. ZILCH. NADA. If works enter the picture of salvaiton at ANY POINT it is no longer grace, but merit.

Again you say all those things that are really pie the sky type of statements and then provide not one single Scirptural proof. Not even a cherry picked verse to prove your point.

 

jjump, this is the area we agree perfectly on...eternal salvation. One can live a carnal life while being a true believer. On this point I don't agree with Tim, but I don't believe it's entrance within the Kingdom that the believer will miss out on for a thousand years, but the loss of rewards and the thousand years to think back on the 80 we spend here with regret and shame that we could have done so much more with our lives that could have impacted the Kingdom.

 

Ah yes it is not in my new nature to desire those things, but guess what? That old sin nature is still around. And it DOES desire those things. And a saved person can either walk in the flesh or they can walk in the Spirit according to Scripture.

But according to Tim one will ONLY walk in the Spirit, but that's just not what Scripture says.

The Bible also says do not be ignorant bretheren God will not be mocked, for what a man sows he will reap. If you reap to the flesh you will reap corruption, but if you reap to the Spirit you will reap life.

You can either sow to the flesh or you can sow to the Spirit. It's a choice that has to be made moment-by-moment. But again according to Tim it's not really a choice, because I will always sow to the Spirit, but yet again Scripture says otherwise.

There's just no Biblical proof that one will always do the right thing. Webdog even proved my point while trying to prove yours. Paul didn't have the desire to do the things he hated, but what was he doing? The things of the flesh or the things of the Spirit.

Your desire to do the right thing can not always keep you from doing the wrong thing.

So are you now saying that as long as I don't desire to cheat on my wife and then it just accidently happens it's okay? Or if I don't desire to cheat on my taxes and it just accidentally happens it's okay? Or if ___________ you fill in the blank, but as long as I didn't desire to do it I'm okay?

 

And the last part is EXACTLY what we have been saying except that the wailing and gnashing of teeth, which is the deep grief and remorse will not be done in the kingdom, but in outer darkness.

Entrance into the kingdom is for those that do the will of the Father, according to Scripture. And if I don't do the will of the Father then I don't get to enter the kingdom and just as you said I will miss out on the rewards, which are crowns, which have to do with ruling and reigning in the kingdom, and I will have 1,000 years to learn obedience, when I could have learned it in the years in the hear and now.

 

This Topic is full. It has been continued at:
#2 Two Salvations? #3 Kingdom Exclusion

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=867422#post867422

 

Thread closed. Go to Ed's link for continuation of subject.
Phillip