Two ways to look at Romans 1:18-21 to show Paul was no Calvinist

I do understand the point that you are asking here...
falls under Justice of God...

God saw that an entire race would be in active rebellion against His law and Himself by choosing NOT to love Him, nor stop sinning...

God makes a "free offer" through the Gospel of the Cross to have men repent and believe. but knowing that we cannot in ourselves reply, he decided to "step in" and make the way to save those He had chosen to save in Christ jesus!

 

...but there was no free offer for the non elect to repent, as they were not atoned for and the Gospel message was not for them.

 

Exactly.. the scripture states "repent and believe the gospel".
If the gospel or good news does not include them, it can not be offered to them FOR them. The good news in essence is that sin can no longer separate us from God as salvation has been obtained. Thus it can not be rejected as it has nothing to do either with or for them. As such their rejection OF the good news would have no bearing of the condemnation at all especially since you can only reject what is offered to you, and if offered, it has been procured.

Yet scripture states it is due to their rejection of the truth (this truth that saved or condemns) is the very reason God sends them a strong delusion to believe the lie. So that they might all be condemned/damned who did not receive the truth ... what truth? the truth that .. could save them and that if rejected, condemned them. Only the gospel message is said to do this.

It goes back to another post of mine in discussing this same topic (which he hasn't answered either)

 

The free offer of the gospel is proclaimed to all men.Who is intended to be saved by the gospel [God's elect} is God's buisness.

To try and say that ungodly persons who remain in rebellion are some how off the hook because they were not elected, is presumption and folly.

They do not know ,and you do not know who is elected. Election is a part of revealed truth. I can tell a sinner that God has elected a multitude of sinners IN Christ.....and at a point in time ,they will come to Jesus savingly.
Then tell them if they have not savingly come as of yet, they are fully responsible to do so.
We are not told that we are to read the Lambs book of life and see who is in it first...then offer only to those we see in it.

No one would be saved unless elected by God. So you can go ahead and try and convince goats all day to believe as a sheep does with a defective message...to no avail.

Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners in Christ. Anyone who remains outside of the Son,is outside of God's love, reconciliation, justifcation, atonement , or anything else that comes with the Kingdom.

You can speculate all you want....but only sheep will enter in.

 

That has never been God's purpose unless you understand all mankind to be the children of God scattered worldwide. The biblical God saves all He intends to save out of mankind...He never purposed to save all.

 

Sorry Brother, but God can not be active in those He chose from/before birth for salvation, and be passive in those who will die and go to hell. If He elected those for heaven, He has preordained their final destination. If He leaves the rest to their "own devices", and never sent Jesus to die for them, never reveal Himself to them, how is He not active in their final destination? So, God is not active in the choosing, and passive in the "passing over."

 

So you saying that this is impossible for God to do?

Its His call as to how ANY of us can even get saved...

never said that Jesus did not die for all, I do hold that is true, BUT

God also knows that NONE of us can even accept him by faith left to our own selves, so he intervened by providing means to save SOME.....

What verses support notion that God will indeed save All?

 

What I mean is in regards to predestination(double). Y'all say that God chooses(elects) the elect, but leave the non-elect in their reprobation, and that He never did predestine their outcome. I just showed you the flaw(s) in this. If you hold to predestination, you have to hold to it being double.....no getting around this. If He predestines/predetermines the elect's outcome by choosing them for salvation, He predestines/predetermines the non-elect's outcome by not choosing them, bur rather, leaving them in their condemnation/reprobation.

 

The depravity of man is a matter of ability, desire. Your argument doesn't apply. If every man has the Gospel manifest in them (as you are implying), why proclaim it? Paul's not speaking of the good news, rather, he's speaking of a knowledge that is "manifest in" everyone, so all are accountable and none are without excuse.

Listen to his words.

1:19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.

2:14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them).

Without excuse.

Dave

 

Liberal debating tactics a so obvious.

Dave

 

Again, depravity means that man cannot obey God, nor does he desire to do so. The general knowledge that Paul was speaking of is enough to make man accountable to God....so that they are without excuse. I believe to go beyond that is to go beyond the text.

Dave

2 Tim. 3:7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

They are without excuse because they know enough to be without excuse. What must one know to be without excuse? You and I agree that Paul is speaking of a general knowledge manifested in all people. To go beyond that is to go beyond the text.

Dave