U.S. Govt' Dumps G.M. Stock

[Crabtownboy]

I didn't miss the point. You did. The U.S. lost money in this bailout. If the idiot in the White House had left the Bush proposal alone and simply followed through, that wouldn't have happened. But the Great Pretender/Naked Emperor/Big Zero/Empty Suit took it upon himself to put the U.S. in the car business. Now, four and a half years later, here we are, net loss of $10.5 billion, GM smaller and less productive that it was -- but probably right where it would have been had it simply been allowed to go into bankruptcy.

But overall they turned a profit.

has recovered $432.7 billion on all TARP investments, compared with $421.8 billion disbursed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...50f_story.html

And whether Mulally thought GM and Chrysler -- his biggest competitors -- ought to be bailed out or not, one has to wonder why he didn't think it was a good idea for Ford? He instead arranged bank financing and a fresh stock offering to raise the money Ford needed. And as a result, his brand rises to the top of the heap among automakers? Do you see some gamesmanship there, CTB?[/quote]

Because the supply chain, on which they all depend, would have been destroyed and then Ford could not have bought what it needed to manufacture cars. Sometimes in a Capitalistic system a company has to look out for its competitors to avoid hurting itself.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

But overall they turned a profit.

Unlike the jobs thread the other day, where I proved to you that monthly stats can show a net gain against an overall loss, it doesn't work that way with finances. You either make, or lose money. We lost money.

As I said earlier in the thread, prove your post, or shut up. And of course, you and I both know you can't prove your post.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Unlike the jobs thread the other day, where I proved to you that monthly stats can show a net gain against an overall loss, it doesn't work that way with finances. You either make, or lose money. We lost money.

On GM, yes money was lost. Overall, however, money was made.

As I said earlier in the thread, prove your post, or shut up. And of course, you and I both know you can't prove your post.

Yes, Potty Mouth, the proof is in the figures. You simply will not accept the figures or are not knowledgeable enough to realize you are wrong.

Let's make it simply with an example.

I buy issues of stock from two companies, i.e. A and B

I sell both companies.

On company A I make 100.00 profit.
On company B I lose 90.00 a loss

Overall I make 10.00.

That is what happened in the bailout. Lose some, win some but overall made more than lost. That is a profit on the overall total.

If you do not understand that, please do not invest in the market.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Let's make it simply with an example.

I buy issues of stock from two companies, i.e. A and B

I sell both companies.

On company A I make 100.00 profit.
On company B I lose 90.00 a loss

Overall I make 10.00.

That is what happened in the bailout.

Prove it. Your "example" isn't proof, it's hyperbole, because this is not what happened in the bailout.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Prove it. Your "example" isn't proof, it's hyperbole, because this is not what happened in the bailout.

It was in an earlier post.

has recovered $432.7 billion on all TARP investments, compared with $421.8 billion disbursed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...50f_story.html

From another source with the word "profit" in the article.

The Treasury Department said it has recovered a total of 432.7 billion on all TARP investments, showing a small profit from the 421.8 billion handed out in bailouts.

http://www.menafn.com/ac0dadf2-f5e6...-longer-partowners-of-General-Motors?src=main

432.7 billion recovered
421.8 billion disbursed ... loaned or invested.
_____________________________

10.9 billion positive difference or profit.

 

[Revmitchell]

Prove it. Your "example" isn't proof, it's hyperbole, because this is not what happened in the bailout.

What you are doing in this thread is much like trying to tell a hair raising story to a bald man.

 

[Crabtownboy]

What you are doing in this thread is much like trying to tell a hair raiding story to a bald man.

Being disruptive again I see and adding nothing rational or informative to the discussion.

Regardless, I have shown, proven that overall the bailout turned a profit ... much as you hate the idea and will never admit that fact.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

What you are doing in this thread is much like trying to tell a hair raising story to a bald man.

More like trying to throw the runoff from a glacier back up the mountain, hoping it will refreeze. :laugh:

432.7 billion recovered
421.8 billion disbursed ... loaned or invested.
_____________________________

10.9 billion positive difference or profit.

You really crack me up! You ought to be a stand up comic, presenting gobbledy-gook like this and passing it off as factual, all the while with straight face. How do you do that?

Read it and weep, junior.

Bailout Tracker: Tracking Every Dollar and Every Recipient​

936
Recipients

$608B
Total disbursement

$380B
Total returned

$198B
Total revenues from dividends, interest, and other fees

$-30.3B <--[My emphasis added]
Total net to date

That doesn't include the $10.5 billion we just lost in the GM stock sell-off. Just as Special IG Christy Romero reported in October, in the latest quarterly report, which you can read [URL="http://www.sigtarp.gov/Quarterly%20Reports/October_29_2013_Report_to_Congress.pdf]here[/URL].

 

[Crabtownboy]

You do not understand the information on the link you provided. It is a very interesting link ... but does not tell the complete story. There are a number of companies/banks/etc. on the list that have not been closed out. So we do not have a final reckoning yet.

Of the 780 investments made by the Treasury, 521 have resulted in a profit. 97 of the investments resulted in a loss. So far, the profits amount to $44.5 billion, while the losses amount to $5.78 billion. 162 of the investments are still outstanding.



However, we can see how we are doing overall from the link below.

http://projects.propublica.org/bailout/

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

You do not understand the information on the link you provided. It is a very interesting link ... but does not tell the complete story. There are a number of companies/banks/etc. on the list that have not been closed out. So we do not have a final reckoning yet.

Ms. Romero's report says the exact same thing, so how are you going to contradict that? We're over $40 billion in the hole and you irrationally try to dismiss it as "not the whole story" and additionally and falsely claim we've "made" $10 billion from TARP? You're truly a dedicated Great Pretender zealot, aren't you? Anything he or his staff says is gospel, everything else is "spin." Wow, takes real dedication to totally dismiss truth in favor of propaganda.

You keep looking at the world through those socialist-issued rose-colored glasses, and you're gonna need eye surgery to uncross them.

 

[just-want-peace]

Being disruptive again I see and adding nothing rational or informative to the discussion.

Maybe not, but he sure did nail your posts!!!! :laugh::laugh:

 

[Crabtownboy]

Maybe not, but he sure did nail your posts!!!! :laugh::laugh:

No, he only showed his ignorance. He has done that often. Seems you are joining him on this one. Where is your rational contribution to the discussion?

The bailout is showing a profit on the positions closed. Add all the positives and subtract the negatives and you have a profit.

What the final number will be when all the positions are closed will be shown in the future. Will there be a profit or a loss ... no one knows yet.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Ms. Romero's report says the exact same thing, so you are you going to contradict that? We're over $40 billion in the whole and you irrationally try to dismiss it as "not the whole story" and additionally and falsely claim we've "made" $10 billion from TARP? You're truly a dedicated Great Pretender zealot, aren't you? Anything he or his staff says is gospel, everything else is "spin." Wow, takes really dedication to totally dismiss truth in favor of propaganda.

You keep looking at the world through those socialist-issued rose-colored glasses, and you're gonna need eye surgery to uncross them.

Taking all the closed positions we are showing a profit. I hope there is a profit after all the positions are closed out. Time will tell.

This has nothing to do with Socialism, it has to do with profits and losses. It appears you really do not understand Socialism any better than you seem to understand Capitalism.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Taking all the closed positions we are showing a profit. I hope there is a profit after all the positions are closed out. Time will tell.

You claim to be an investor and you don't even realize that you can't do accurate or truthful bookkeeping by ignoring open accounts that are showing a deficit???

Wow. That's ... wow.

 

[InTheLight]

You claim to be an investor and you don't even realize that you can't do accurate or truthful bookkeeping by ignoring open accounts that are showing a deficit???

Wow. That's ... wow.

That's accurate. He's not ignoring them, he's simply saying their ultimate disposition has not yet been determined.

If I own a stock that is currently showing a loss and I don't sell it, I haven't lost any money yet, have I?

Similarly, if I own a stock that is showing a gain and I don't sell it, I haven't made any money yet, have I?

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

That's accurate. He's not ignoring them, he's simply saying their ultimate disposition has not yet been determined.

If I own a stock that is currently showing a loss and I don't sell it, I haven't lost any money yet, have I?

Wrong analogy. GM is the only company in which we owned stock, and we've sold it at a loss. He has dragged TARP into this, which isn't what the thread is about, but he doesn't understand that, either. TARP funds were to be paid back. Though a great deal of TARP funds have been repaid, we are carrying a $30.5 billion debt against the original stimulus. Read post # 28 to confirm that. CTB isn't being honest, either about GM or about TARP, and is now making statements that appear to indicate he knows nothing about finance, either, which is pretty strange given he claims to be a serious investor.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Wrong analogy. GM is the only company in which we owned stock, and we've sold it at a loss. He has dragged TARP into this, which isn't what the thread is about, but he doesn't understand that, either. TARP funds were to be paid back. Though a great deal of TARP funds have been repaid, we are carrying a $30.5 billion debt against the original stimulus. Read post # 28 to confirm that. CTB isn't being honest, either about GM or about TARP, and is now making statements that appear to indicate he knows nothing about finance, either, which is pretty strange given he claims to be a serious investor.

I have said that the gov. lost money on GM. But that is not the entire story. Remember there are positions still open that may add to the profit, or result in an overall loss. Only time will tell.

And, you are quite wrong in saying that only GM stock was bought. I am not sure why the selected now to sell. The charts indicate the GM still has upward momentum.

The Treasury announced their intention to buy senior preferred stock and warrants from the nine largest American banks. The shares would qualify as Tier 1 capital and were non-voting shares. To qualify for this program, the Treasury required participating institutions to meet certain criteria, including: "(1) ensuring that incentive compensation for senior executives does not encourage unnecessary and excessive risks that threaten the value of the financial institution; (2) required clawback of any bonus or incentive compensation paid to a senior executive based on statements of earnings, gains or other criteria that are later proven to be materially inaccurate; (3) prohibition on the financial institution from making any golden parachute payment to a senior executive based on the Internal Revenue Code provision; and (4) agreement not to deduct for tax purposes executive compensation in excess of $500,000 for each senior executive."[10] The Treasury also bought preferred stock and warrants from hundreds of smaller banks, using the first $250 billion allotted to the program.[11]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program

GM was part of TARP.

Other info. on TARP profits:

Treasury said it spent $421.8 billion on bailouts and so far has recovered $432.7 billion, including the loss on GM.

So we lost out on GM, but made money elsewhere.
Read more at http://wonkette.com/536178/wonkspla...tually-reasonably-awesome#KkhfC1XZwIVflk1r.99

The Treasury Department says the federal government has made more than $23 billion so far on its controversial bank bailout.

http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2012/12/18/tarp-profit-tops-23b-as-more-banks.html

The federal government has sold off the remainder of its AIG securities for a surprise $17.7 billion profit, the latest piece of the controversial TARP government bailout to make a profit.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/government-makes-177-billion-profit-aig-bailout/story?id=17074275

 

[Crabtownboy]

You claim to be an investor and you don't even realize that you can't do accurate or truthful bookkeeping by ignoring open accounts that are showing a deficit???

Wow. That's ... wow.

There is no real profit or loss until the position is closed. There may be a paper loss just as there may be a paper gain. Only time will tell the end result.

On your income tax return you do not have to report open positions as there is no meaningful figure indicating either a profit or a loss that is real.

I keep records on open positions and other records on closed positions. Thus, I always know where I stand in real dollars and in paper profits or losses.

The Wall Street Journal Blog had the headline Government Turns Bailout Profit Despite GM Loss

 

[InTheLight]

The Wall Street Journal Blog had the headline Government Turns Bailout Profit Despite GM Loss

Can be read here:

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/11/21/government-turns-bailout-profit-despite-gm-loss/

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

And it's a blog, not a news report. Also, how is it you two don't understand that the Special Inspector General overseeing TARP reports a loss through the last quarter, and not one of the companies she reports owing money as of October 29 has closed out their "account"? I provided you -- and everyone else -- the link. Go argue with her assessment, and stop trying to circumvent her authority with Great Pretender apologists.

Sheez.