U.S. Renews Support for Palestinian State

Enoch · Jan 13, 2006

Originally posted by KenH:
See, I do post positive items about the Bush administration.
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I have been on vacation but noticed you did a flip flop politically... Strange, but at least it has been a year since your last flip flop if I remember correctly? It’s all good as long as you do not flip flop religiously.

quote:Originally posted by hillclimber:
That's right, give evil, statehood. So wrong.

Originally posted by KenH:
If it gives more security for the children of the Israelis, then it is so right.
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Ken if your concern is the safety of the children of Israel perhaps your posts should reflect abhorrence for the Palestinian terrorists who murder them. The Palestinians have publicized to the world that they are incapable of peace and they have no intention of creating the utopia you dream of.

Enoch · Jan 13, 2006

Ken, perphaps this might be of interest.

Link

JERUSALEM -
Israel's acting prime minister told
President Bush Thursday that the Palestinians had to do more to fight Palestinian terror groups or risk bringing the Mideast peace process to a standstill, the Israeli government said .

According to a statement from Olmert's office, Bush said that the militant Palestinian Hamas group, which is running in Jan. 25 parliamentary elections, must change its approach to Israel and recognize the Jewish state's right to exist.

Without singling out Hamas, Olmert said it was important that Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas "take steps against terrorism and disband terrorist organizations, because otherwise there can be no progress" toward peace.

Bush also said he would continue to implement the joint vision he and Sharon had for promoting Middle East peace. The statement said Bush asked Olmert to tell Sharon's sons, Omri and Gilad, that Bush admires their father and wishes him the best.

Hamas is expected to do well in the election, capitalizing on infighting in Abbas' ruling which is blamed for more than a decade of inefficient and corrupt Palestinian government.

Hamas is running in a parliamentary election for the first time. It boycotted the other one, in 1996, because it rejects the interim peace accords with Israel that created the Palestinian legislature.

Though it is running, Hamas has refused to change its charter, calling for Israel's destruction, or pledge to stop attacks against Israel. Hamas suicide bombers have killed hundreds of Israelis during the last five years of violence.

Armed gangs of Palestinians, most of them affiliated with Fatah, have been raiding Palestinian government buildings and kidnapping foreigners, demanding jobs and places on the Fatah list of candidates. Abbas' security forces have not taken steps against the gunmen, usually promising to consider their demands.

The chaos has helped boost Hamas popularity, and some predict Hamas could even win the election outright, taking control of the 132-member parliament.
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Joseph_Botwinick · Jan 13, 2006

Originally posted by Enoch:
The Palestinians have publicized to the world that they are incapable of peace and they have no intention of creating the utopia you dream of.
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That is not correct. Hamas, Al Aqsa, and Islamic Jihad have broadcast this message to the world. They do not represent all, or even, IMO, the majority of Palestinians. As a matter of fact, I remember not too long ago, there was some actual polling data posted in the Politics forum that showed the exact opposite of what you claim here. I will try to find it.

Joseph Botwinick

Joseph_Botwinick · Jan 13, 2006

Here it is.

Joseph_Botwinick · Jan 13, 2006

Originally posted by LadyEagle:
I can't remember that, Joseph. Perhaps you can search some old posts to refresh my memory.
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2. I am still hopeful that there can be peace in Israel, as are 62% of Palestinians and 68% of Israelis. Reciprocity is the first step towards real peace and a two state solution.
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web page

Joseph Botwinick

Joseph_Botwinick · Jan 13, 2006

I hope you're right.

I still think Hamas and all the terrorist organizations should be disarmed before anymore talks are held. I still think it is a mistake for Israel to keep giving and giving and giving and get very little to nothing positive in return. If there is to be any hope of peace in Israel, there must be reciprocity.

Joseph Botwinick
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web page

1. Hamas is a terrorist group. Of course they feel this way. It must also be noted that they also oppress their own people, many who simply would like to have their own state, and live in peace with their neighbors.

2. It is still too early, I think, to know if the Gaza Pullout, which was BTW, supported by the majority of Israelis as is the West Bank Pullout, was a mistake or not. I say, if things are not improved by January, then we can call it a mistake. Even at that point, it has nothing to do with God's promise land. It has everything to do with Ariel Sharon's failure to demand reciprocity for land to push for democratic and human rights reforms in the PA, and to push to disarm the terrorist organizations.

3. Disarm the terrorists and all their boasting will go away. Will Ariel Sharon have the Chuzpah to do so? We will see? If not, he will soon be replaced.

4. To sum up: Land for cease fires and false peace will not work. You are right there. Land for human rights and democratic reforms, and for disarming the terrorists will work. That will lead to true and lasting peace.

Joseph Botwinick
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web page

KenH · Jan 13, 2006

Originally posted by Enoch:
I have been on vacation but noticed you did a flip flop politically
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Please explain.

As far as the Israeli-Palestinian problem is concerned I have always been pretty even-handed in dealing with that subject, I believe.

Enoch · Jan 17, 2006

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Enoch:
The Palestinians have publicized to the world that they are incapable of peace and they have no intention of creating the utopia you dream of.
Click to expand...

That is not correct. Hamas, Al Aqsa, and Islamic Jihad have broadcast this message to the world. They do not represent all, or even, IMO, the majority of Palestinians. As a matter of fact, I remember not too long ago, there was some actual polling data posted in the Politics forum that showed the exact opposite of what you claim here. I will try to find it.

Joseph Botwinick [/QUOTE]Joseph,
I am not sure how you came to your conclusion even after reading your poll. I am sure you are aware of current events in Israel…

You do know there is a difference between a Palestinian and an Israeli Arab???

The report of the link is dated June 3, 2003… This report is over 2 years old and the Gaza pullout is a current event, surely you know this? Did you read this in your link?

By wide margins, most Muslim populations doubt that a way can be found for the state of Israel to exist so that the rights and needs of the Palestinian people are met. Eight-in-ten residents of the Palestinian Authority express this opinion.
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Just because one is hopeful does not change factual current events and the unwillingness of the Palestinians to follow through with any commitment.

Thus my comment directed towards KenH:
The Palestinians have publicized to the world that they are incapable of peace and they have no intention of creating the utopia you dream of.

Enoch · Jan 17, 2006

Originally posted by KenH:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Enoch:
[qb] I have been on vacation but noticed you did a flip flop politically
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Please explain.

[/QUOTE]The answer to your

Originally posted by KenH:
See, I do post positive items about the Bush administration.
Click to expand...

Originally posted by Enoch:
I have been on vacation but noticed you did a flip flop politically... Strange, but at least it has been a year since your last flip flop if I remember correctly? It’s all good as long as you do not flip flop religiously.
Click to expand...

As for you

Originally posted by KenH: always been pretty even-handed
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concerning the Israeli- Palestinian conflict I disagree, but that’s a different thread

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