U.S. Soldiers Tortured & Slaughtered

Pole – Your post is not worthy of responding. This thread is not about you or me, keep it respectful.


As for my comment to Daisy, it is very sincere.

 

Enoch, you don't tell anyone what to do. Read your own comments, then pull the mote from your own eye.

 

Just my two pennies:

Enoch, IMO, you are right that you can't support the troops and oppose their mission. I think it is an insult to them to imply that they are acting illegitimately. HOWEVER, that is not to say that MP's position puts him in support of the recent attack. He agreed that it was a horrific attack. His position that we are there wrongly doesn't mean that he can't reasonably or legitimately deplore such attacks against our troops or find such attacks to be barbaric. I must confess to having the same initial opinion as carpro in response to MP's argument, that it appeared MP was saying that the attack was justified but I take MP at his word that he finds this attack horrific. I would also add, though I don't think that anyone here disagrees with this statement, that it is certainly MP's right to oppose this war. His opposition doesn't make him any less American or mean that he loves his country any less. IMO, it is healthy to have a skepticism and reluctance toward war. I believe that he is wrong about this war and whether we should be there. While I would like to think that Americans will all come together to support a war effort, the war in Iraq is not a repeat of WWII in which we were directly attacked; while I agree with it, the wisdom of carrying out this war is a question for legitimate debate.

 

What wisdom in carrying out this war????

Enoch and FTR do you like Tom Delay??? of course you can support the troops and not the incompetent policy of this administration that has let North Korea sneak up on them today....and surprise ..surprise Japan just declared success and is now leaving...good for them and smart. You rightwingers should have listened to the wisdom of William F. Buckley but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! is was the insane stupidity of "stay the course"

what course and what plan????

and ftr come on what wisdom??? in carrying out this war ..you really think bush has any wisdom ...it is all in his gut and whatever he can use politically to stay in power by demonizing people who really want to help and save lives.

BTW this is an occupation the war ended in 2003 in an occupation you better have an exit or you will be in quagmire and I think it is too late mr. incompetent bush is in a quagmire ...he should call up William F. Buckley today and apologize for not listening to him.

All that being said I am in favor of these Al Qaeda thugs being hunted down and put down ...but what begs the question and you have heard it from the bush people that the Iraqi people are against Al Qaeda then why in the world would they stand by and let this happen...it goes back to my point they only want to use us and really do not want us there.

Deception is coming from all sides ...and most especially bush.

 

Bush is too arrogant to admit he made a mistake and will continue to whitewash his mistakes with the blood of American kids having their heads sawed off and arms and legs blown off. What "christian" Bush has forgotten is that the demonic powers there cannot be wrestled with or fought with military might. It is a spiritual black hole in Iraq and has been for generations and will continue to be until Jesus comes back to rule and to reign.

 

No doubt millions of muslims will be taking to the streets in demonstration of how their "religion of peace" has been hijacked by a few. I expect to see massive demonstrations any day now, especially in Iraq since they are so happy we liberated them from Saddam and gave them "democracy." [/sarcasm]

 

LE, I agree with you. The "good" Muslim people have stood by and allowed these things to go on. Why should we now have to "free" them from their own devices.

Daisy, not wanting the same to happen to you is not good enough! If you want freedom you must be willing to put your life on the line to acheive it. Our forefathers did, our soldiers do it every day! What is wrong with a people that won't fight for their own freedom? Could it be they just don't care? That they were satisfied with how Saddam was running things?

I was against this war from the beginning. The Iraqi's have never shown me where they want democracy! They can't even show me that they want peace or they would be paying attention to who their neighbors are and what they are doing and not turning a blind eye when they see an atrocity happening directly in front of them!

I can't believe that this kind of thing could happen in the middle of a populated area without someone getting the idea that something wrong was going on. Why didn't they just report it? Not wanting to get involved is NOT and excuse!

My two bits is this: Now that we are there, we either need to use the force necessary to bring stability to the area or we need to get out and them them fight it out among themselves.

Tell me why we American are putting 3 of our own Marines on trial for the deaths of Iraqi civilians when Iraqi civilians stood by and allowed this atrocity to happen? Can't anybody see the double standard we have going on?

 

Carpro, you should know enough about me from my posts by now to think that! However, I am sorry that perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my original comments.

 

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

 

So obviously my words conveyed something that was not in the intent.

FTR, thanks for your rational words. You and I both know that it is only occasionally that we are actually eye-to-eye on the war and many other political issues. However, I appreciate your tone and willingness to open-mindedly examine the other side of the issue, regardless of if you change your views. I always try to do the same as well. A well-balanced conclusion demands examination of all sides.

MP

 

Fromtheright, I'm glad you agree on what it means to support our troops.:thumbs:
I was a bit confused of the remaining part of your comment regarding Pole. Mainly because I never stated those comments about Pole. Here is everything I have stated in this thread.

 

One Iraqi citizen doesn't equal another. Just because some Iraqis may not have rendered aid, some would have. Innocents who are murdered need to have their murderers held accountable. Not all marines are equal...there are bad apples in any group. If these marines did commit war attrocities and murder, they need to be held accountable to:

1. Show the world how America believes in justice and equality for all
2. Hold anyone who murders accountable

Being a marine doesn't excuse it. If guilty, these guys have brought shame on their corp of brothers who proudly, faithfully, and fairly serve. Like it or not, our service people have accepted a role as ambassadors of America. We will not win hearts and minds by murder of innocents. I am against killing innocent Americans OR innocent Iraqis. Yes war is ugly enough. We don't add to it by taking out rage on civilian populations. I am aghast that a professing Christian can be so callous about the murder of innocent people whom Jesus died for.

 

As usual with most liberals, the truth is not in your court. Please show me where I stated this. I challenge you to it and I will reply no further to you until you show where I said this or admit that you are making up things.

This has been shown quite plainly to those who are interested in history. Read some books.

Blinders.

Don't forget that we knowingly put civilian passengers on a civilian ship that was knowingly carrying arms in a war. We then used this as an excuse to enter WWI. I don't think we were wrong to be in that war, either, but I think the way we did it was appalling, just like the way we entered WWII.

 

MP, your premise of "winning hearts and minds of the Iraqi people" is a false premise, even though you may sincerely believe it can happen. The majority of Iraqi people are muslims and believe everyone else are infidels as their religion teaches. In that way, you are in the same denial as Bush, although probably for different reasons.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

 

LE, that is NOT my position. It is the position of the government. I am stating that murder is not a way to accomplish that stated objective.

 

They're just like so many people in this country who think that "if we just leave them alone, they'll leave us alone". By the time you figure out that you're incorrect, it's too late.

 

Thanks for clearing that up, MP.

My heart goes out to the mothers of the two soldiers who were tortured before being beheaded. I'm sure that when they held those two sons as babies in their arms, or when they learned to take their first steps or drive a car for the first time or signed up to join the US Military, they never dreamed their sons would be tortured and beheaded one day in a god forsaken land by evil doers. My heart is heavy for these two mothers and the rest of their families who are suffering this loss. My prayers go out to them. I just can't imagine their pain.

 

HoG, here you go. I said:

and you replied:

You are saying you are glad people didn't think this in WWII, thus implying you think it correct to send our troop in harms way without a clear and present danger. You may correct yourself by retracting or issuing a clarification, but there it is.

Really? Still no evidence, just pointless comments. I do read many books, friend. I have a degree with a minor in history. Not that that fact makes me correct, but I have "read some books". Just because you read something in print doesn't mean it is true. Be skeptical. Oh yeah...and provide some evidence. Saying "Blinders" isn't evidence.