UK 80% vaxxed, having major outbreaks of covid and hospitalizations

[Andre]

More people have died from these latest 'vaccines' (and they are not vaccines in reality) than all the deaths from all the vaccines of the last 30 years.

Two falsehoods:

(1) you are either deliberately misrepresenting the truth when you say that "More people have died from these latest 'vaccines' (and they are not vaccines in reality) than all the deaths from all the vaccines of the last 30 years." Or you are making this up. Take your pick.

(2) These are indeed vaccines.

 

[Reynolds]

Rare, he says, it’s rare because they say it is, not because it is at all rare.
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I like JonC. He is a great person, but when it comes to Covid, he has blinders on. His mind is made up.
You might could say the same about me and my antivax position, but I truly do have an open mind.
I look at it purely from a risk analysis stand point.
1. I was 99.8% likely to survive the virus.
2. Having it twice, that number has moved up, but I do not know how much
3. Delta will have blown through U.S. before one could reach "full protection" from the vaccine if they took it today.
4. The vaccines are not looking promising against MU .

Please tell me exactly why I should get vaxed until they update the vax to be highly effective against MU and newer variants??

 

[Reynolds]

Rare, he says, it’s rare because they say it is, not because it is at all rare.
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I guess rare means it didn't happen to the person saying "rare".

 

[Marooncat79]

You have quite the imagination.

Of course, reality has a different opinion.

That is a historical fact not imagination

 

[Marooncat79]

Glenn Jacobs won't enforce vaccine mandate for Knox County employees

I’ll take Kane against Nancy, Joe and Pinocchio Fauci

 

[Marooncat79]

Fact check: Post about Andrew Cuomo, COVID-19 vaccine lacks context

 

[Reynolds]

Misinformation.

VARES does not, nor has it ever, linked death to vaccines. VAERS does not determine cause of death. VAERS is a reporting organization accountable to the CDC and FDA. They compile data.

Read what the purpose of that data is supposed to be.

 

[Marooncat79]

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

 

[Marooncat79]

CNBC, others misrepresent Trump's remarks on COVID-19 vaccine distribution in New York

 

[JonC]

Read what the purpose of that data is supposed to be.

I did.

"When evaluating data from VAERS, it is important to note that for any reported event, no cause-and-effect relationship has been established. "

VAERS - Guide to Interpreting VAERS Data

 

[JonC]

Rare, he says, it’s rare because they say it is, not because it is at all rare.
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They say rare because out if 14,000,000 J&J vaccinations there have been 3 deaths related to the issue (as of September 2021). That's a .0000000000000000214% chance of having that adverse effect.

I suppose rare could be subjective. You seen to think dying of covid is rare (at 1.5%) but think serious adverse vaccine effects are common (at .0026%). I'm not sure you understand tge word "rare".

 

[Reynolds]

I did.

"When evaluating data from VAERS, it is important to note that for any reported event, no cause-and-effect relationship has been established. "

VAERS - Guide to Interpreting VAERS Data

The purpose is to report adverse events to be studied. They are not studying. They are wholesale dismissing.

 

[Andre]

Rare, he says, it’s rare because they say it is, not because it is at all rare.

What is your actual argument here? Of course, Jon is going to base his assessment on what the authorities say. What do you expect - he is going to quit his job and conduct his own investigation?

Note what is going on here - you have no basis to challenge the numbers Jon has provided, so what do you do? You assert that deaths among the vaccinated are not rare and then list non-death adverse outcomes from the vaccine. But the issue in Jon's post is deaths from covid in vaccinated people, not serious adverse events in reaction to the vaccine.

 

[Andre]

They are not studying. They are wholesale dismissing.

I would be stunned if this is true.

 

[JonC]

The purpose is to report adverse events to be studied. They are not studying. They are wholesale dismissing.

VAERS never studied adverse effects. That was not it's purpose. The CDC did conduct studies of the adverse effects (obviously) and they did suspend the vaccine when an unexpected effect surfaced (again, obviously).

 

[Reynolds]

VAERS never studied adverse effects. That was not it's purpose. The CDC did conduct studies of the adverse effects (obviously) and they did suspend the vaccine when an unexpected effect surfaced (again, obviously).

I know. The Cdc is not studying them. That's the problem.

 

[JonC]

I know. The Cdc is not studying them. That's the problem.

But they are studying them - that is my point.

They do not study anticipated adverse reactions within published standards. But what happened when an unexpected possible reaction occurred? Yep. You know. They suspended the vaccine to study it closely.

 

[Reynolds]

But they are studying them - that is my point.

They do not study anticipated adverse reactions within published standards. But what happened when an unexpected possible reaction occurred? Yep. You know. They suspended the vaccine to study it closely.

J&J listed blood clots and death at the onset. How were blood clots and death not anticipated?

 

[JonC]

J&J listed blood clots and death at the onset. How were blood clots and death not anticipated?

The FDA didn’t recommend the pause “because we felt that the number of cases was growing out of control, but because we wanted to educate providers to know what to do,” said Peter Marks, MD, PhD, director of the FDA’s Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research, during an AMA-hosted webinar.

This also includes informing doctors that standard treatments—such as administering heparin—can worsen a patient’s condition.

“One of the individuals who received heparin clearly had complications related to the receipt of heparin,” Dr. Marks told AMA President Susan R. Bailey, MD, in the seventh installment of the AMA-hosted "COVID-19: What Physicians Need to Know" webinar series to discuss current issues and next steps in SARS-CoV-2 vaccine safety and delivery.

Nearly 7 million doses of the J&J vaccine have been administered, but the FDA and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) are reviewing data involving six reported cases in the U.S. of a brain blood clot—cerebral venous sinus thrombosis in combination with thrombocytopenia—in people getting the J&J vaccine. All were in women between 18 and 48, with symptoms developing six to 13 days after vaccination.

One of the women died. Another is hospitalized in critical condition.

The pause also gives the FDA and CDC time to ascertain whether there are other cases that the agencies were not aware of, whether women 18–48 are at higher relative risk for blood clots after receiving the vaccine and, if so, develop appropriate mitigation strategies.

J&J vaccine and brain blood clots: What physicians should know

 

[Andre]

3. Delta will have blown through U.S. before one could reach "full protection" from the vaccine if they took it today.

How do you know this? Can you please cite a credible expert who shares this view?