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Unbelief of TULIP

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convicted1

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steaver said:
This is a debate board, correct? Do you really believe Calvinist are here to learn if their belief in TULIP is correct? Or are they here with an agenda to preach TULIP without consideration that they could be wrong? Well let me ask you brother, do you believe you could be wrong about TULIP? How about you Willis, think you could be wrong about TULIP? If not, why are you here debating, do you have an agenda?
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No. Now, what causes me to no longer be a synergist?
 
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convicted1

Guest
steaver said:
Well, I will have to go through your post and look it up. I'm pretty sure you gave a testimony about coming to Calvinism. I will look around....
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Why do you think I came to monergism from synergism? Give me your opinion. You keep yammering about your hatred of all things Calvinism, so speak up...
 
steaver

steaver

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convicted1 said:
Why do you think I came to monergism from synergism? Give me your opinion. You keep yammering about your hatred of all things Calvinism, so speak up...
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When I give it, if I give it, if I find your testimony, it will not be an opinion. Now, you can reiterate your testimony here, or give me time to see if I can find it. I'm looking through threads now...
 
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convicted1

Guest
steaver said:
When I give it, if I give it, if I find your testimony, it will not be an opinion. Now, you can reiterate your testimony here, or give me time to see if I can find it. I'm looking through threads now...
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I did mine through study. Look buddy, I hide nothing. I believed in free will for years. I'd hear preachers say 'I chose Christ', and I'd amen it, but deep inside, I kept feeling a tug, like something wasn't exactly right. I went for quite a while and I'd ask God to show me if free will is correct or not. I'd read something, and nope, free will was correct. Then one day on here a fellow said he opened up his heart to Christ. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. I knew, even in my free will belief, that we don't open our hearts to Him. He must be the one who does that. I then went to God and in earnest prayer, I asked Him to show me which was the correct biblical stance, free will or the doctrines of grace. Then it seemed the DoGs just leaped out from the pages. He brought me to where I'm at now...
 
steaver

steaver

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convicted1 said:
I did mine through study. Look buddy, I hide nothing. I believed in free will for years. I'd hear preachers say 'I chose Christ', and I'd amen it, but deep inside, I kept feeling a tug, like something wasn't exactly right. I went for quite a while and I'd ask God to show me if free will is correct or not. I'd read something, and nope, free will was correct. Then one day on here a fellow said he opened up his heart to Christ. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. I knew, even in my free will belief, that we don't open our hearts to Him. He must be the one who does that. I then went to God and in earnest prayer, I asked Him to show me which was the correct biblical stance, free will or the doctrines of grace. Then it seemed the DoGs just leaped out from the pages. He brought me to where I'm at now...
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Ok, so why did you ask me to give your testimony? In the end you prayed and asked God and DoG just leaped out from the pages! So it was God who finally showed you, correct?

As I was looking for your testimony I found one from blessedwife318....

I would disagree with this. I was raised Wesleyan (can't get more free will then that) so the preaching and the commentaries I was exposed to had that bent yet it was as I studied the Scriptures on my own that I became more and more reformed. I wasn't sure what I was for a long time and would denied being a Calvinist since that was a four letter word in the circles I grew up in. And ironically it was when I was reading a book making a case against reform theology that I realized I was reformed from my own study of the Bible and the Spirits illumination.
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convicted1

Guest
steaver said:
Ok, so why did you ask me to give your testimony? In the end you prayed and asked God and DoG just leaped out from the pages! So it was God who finally showed you, correct?

As I was looking for your testimony I found one from blessedwife318....
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Yes, I hide nothing, my testimony to my switch is the truth.


Now, how did you come to your free will belief? Don't you believe God illuminated you to see free will as the biblical truth?
 
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PreachTony

Active Member
convicted1 said:
I did mine through study. Look buddy, I hide nothing. I believed in free will for years. I'd hear preachers say 'I chose Christ', and I'd amen it, but deep inside, I kept feeling a tug, like something wasn't exactly right. I went for quite a while and I'd ask God to show me if free will is correct or not. I'd read something, and nope, free will was correct. Then one day on here a fellow said he opened up his heart to Christ. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. I knew, even in my free will belief, that we don't open our hearts to Him. He must be the one who does that. I then went to God and in earnest prayer, I asked Him to show me which was the correct biblical stance, free will or the doctrines of grace. Then it seemed the DoGs just leaped out from the pages. He brought me to where I'm at now...
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And I feel the same way about my Free Will stance. I see it in the scripture. I've tried approaching the scripture from the Calvinist stance, and I just don't see it. Do you honestly believe, as your co-Calvinist Iconoclast does, that God just hasn't shown it to me yet? If so, but you believe my testimony and that I am saved, then I fear we are approaching some form of progressive revelation.

The way I see it, and how I would tell anyone about my experience, I would state that I have also studied the scriptures. Yes, I began from a position of free will and, for lack of a better term, synergism, but I still see those stances expounded in the scriptures. I have prayed about my beliefs, and in my prayer, study, and meditation I continually return to the Free Will position. If Calvinism is so obviously correct and Free Will is so obviously wrong, then why does the Spirit continue to show me Free Will?
 
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convicted1

Guest
PreachTony said:
And I feel the same way about my Free Will stance. I see it in the scripture. I've tried approaching the scripture from the Calvinist stance, and I just don't see it. Do you honestly believe, as your co-Calvinist Iconoclast does, that God just hasn't shown it to me yet? If so, but you believe my testimony and that I am saved, then I fear we are approaching some form of progressive revelation.
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Look, we are finite beings with finite minds and are not infallable. All we can go from is what we glean from the scriptures.

The way I see it, and how I would tell anyone about my experience, I would state that I have also studied the scriptures. Yes, I began from a position of free will and, for lack of a better term, synergism, but I still see those stances expounded in the scriptures. I have prayed about my beliefs, and in my prayer, study, and meditation I continually return to the Free Will position. If Calvinism is so obviously correct and Free Will is so obviously wrong, then why does the Spirit continue to show me Free Will?
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Again, finite minds, beings and fallable....
 
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convicted1

Guest
steaver said:
Ok, so why did you ask me to give your testimony? In the end you prayed and asked God and DoG just leaped out from the pages! So it was God who finally showed you, correct?

As I was looking for your testimony I found one from blessedwife318....
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Now...are you going to answer my question?

You believe in free will and synergism...what made me change from them to God's sovereignity and monergism?

What caused me to change if free will and synergism is biblically true as you believe it is? I'll be waiting....

To borrow something someone posted on here...

You're on the clock...

images
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

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I will repeat myself to the synergists that it is a strong conviction of mine that you hold a presupposition that does not include a sovereign God. Therein lies the crux of the difference between monergists and you folks.Go debate that if you so desire.
 
Sapper Woody

Sapper Woody

Well-Known Member
Reformed said:
Tony, and vice versa.
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I think his whole point is that I doesn't work "vice versa". If free will is true, then man will believe what he studies for himself. If not, man will believe what God illuminates for him. If so, then why hasn't God illuminated it for every proponent of free will?
 
Reformed

Reformed

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Sapper Woody said:
I think his whole point is that I doesn't work "vice versa". If free will is true, then man will believe what he studies for himself. If not, man will believe what God illuminates for him. If so, then why hasn't God illuminated it for every proponent of free will?
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No, Sapper. Tony asked why does not the "Spirit" continue to show him free will? If it is the operation of the Spirit than it should not matter what theological system is correct. I mean, after all, is anyone going to argue with the Holy Spirit?
 
Reformed

Reformed

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Sapper Woody said:
I think his whole point is that I doesn't work "vice versa". If free will is true, then man will believe what he studies for himself. If not, man will believe what God illuminates for him. If so, then why hasn't God illuminated it for every proponent of free will?
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Also, we should not confuse God's will of decree in salvation with the work of the Spirit in illumining our minds to the truth. The Father calls all those who will come to the Son. The Holy Spirit is the person of the godhead who effects the call. As far as illumination of the truth, that is a different matter. Not every Christian is at the same level of knowledge. There are varied reasons for this: sin, intellectual ability, exposure (or lack thereof) to solid bible teaching et. al. The scripture say that, "And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ" (Ephesians 4:11-13). It is the responsibility of ministers of the gospel to teach the sheep. Some fulfill their duty and others are derelict at it.
 
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