With me being a Calvinist, I do think there's too much emphasis on the acronym. Most Reformed theologians will admit Calvinism is too complex to be boxed to five points.
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Unbelief of TULIP
- Thread starter steaver
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I agree. I believe in 6 points.
Yeah it's at least 6 points for me too.
I do not believe a child of God can not know they are a child of God because the Spirit dwells within and testifies inwardly constantly, one is joined together with Christ. It is the purpose of being born-again. Of course it is personal. I can know for sure myself, but I cannot know for 100% sure anyone else.
:thumbsup:
And I would point out that God rejoices in the humble and simple minded. How does a child receive the Gospel? Does a child need to understand Calvinism in order to understand the Gospel?
"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ".
I wouldn't take 2 Corinthians 11:3 to mean he rejoices in the simple minded...though he does rejoice in the humble.
Out of the millions of Christians throughout history until now, how many would you say could care less about Calvinism/TULIP? Or even understand it's complexity? The Gospel is very simple and that is the way God wanted it.
I have always stated that Calvinism is the clearest and most accurate expression of the gospel...yet (I believe Reformed put it this way) the gospel is not Calvinism.
Simple? In its message, yes. No one saddles a sinner with the need to write a doctoral thesis on soteriology in order to be saved. But as a new babe in Christ grows, they will start to understand the depth of the Gospel. Monergism is more than just how a person is called to Christ. It effects every facet of Christian theology.
idk, I believe the depth of the Gospel is understood from rebirth. Otherwise, I doubt the person got saved....
PreachTony
Active Member
I've heard it said that John Piper, a true Calvinist's Calvinist, is a 19-Point Calvinist looking for 6 more points.
Ha!
Actually, while we are having a bit of fun, the reason you even hear things like that (re: Piper) is because how Monergists have looked at the scope of God's sovereignty; its impact on Christian theology. Opponents of Monergism will assert that Monergists make God into a master chess player and we are but pawns with no choice. But Monergists do not believe than man does not make choices or that those choices are not freely made. How individual choice and God's sovereignty co-exist is something only God can reconcile. Some Synergists have an answer for that by saying that the foreseen faith view is how the two work together. But while it provides an answer it has the unwanted consequence of circular reasoning; a cosmic game of the dog chasing his own tail. One poster on this board accused me of hiding behind an argument from silence. I prefer to to say that I am not bothered by those things that God has not revealed. After all, the secret things belong to the Lord (Deuteronomy 29:29).
convicted1
Guest
Now...are you going to answer my question?
You believe in free will and synergism...what made me change from them to God's sovereignity and monergism?
What caused me to change if free will and synergism is biblically true as you believe it is? I'll be waiting....
To borrow something someone posted on here...
You're on the clock...
savedbymercy
New Member
The Truths of Tulip are nothing short of Truths that explains the Gospel of God's Grace, rejecting them is nothing short of rejection of the Gospel of God's Grace in Christ !
It seems anything else would be a works gospel. It took some time for me to come around to this. The very idea that we have it within ourselves to respond to the Gospel and a Holy God is laughable. It shows that some do not realize the depth of depravity in man caused by sin. It affects all of Creation, not just man. The theory of "a spark of goodness" in us treats depravity like it is a common cold. Secondly if we could muster up a self induced response to the Gospel, it is just another thing we have to "do" for salvation. We do not "do" anything. It is a gift from God. We have created all sorts of "dos" over the centuries. Things like self effort to respond to the Gospel, be baptized, maintain a certain level of behavior or lose salvation, etc. Faith and grace that are the elements of salvation are also gifts of God.
Another thing, free will of man is bounded by our sinful nature. We can only exercise free will as fallen creatures. Without a touch from God (Spirit) we have no desire to respond. I always hear the whosoever will argument. The point is whosoever will won't unless God quickens them.
Quite a clock there.
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savedbymercy
New Member
You make some valid points, so do you believe that the Truths of Tulip are the Gospel of God's Grace explained ?
Yes and what is so ironic about that is, I never accepted it while growing up as a Presbyterian, but came to that belief as a Baptist.
convicted1
Guest
You edited this. Lullz...fyi, I read it prior to your changing it....
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