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Unbelief vs Belief ?

rstrats

Member
Site Supporter
You’re defining belief as an instantaneous mental flip...
It has to be. You can't believe something and at the same time not believe the same something. There has to an instant when the one state of mind changes to the other.
, as if faith were the ability to conjure conviction out of thin air.
If a belief can be engendered by simply choosing to have it, then thick air/evidence is not necessary - prudent in some cases maybe - but not necessary.
That is not what belief is. Scripture presents belief as assent to truth when confronted with evidence...
How do you know when you have enough evidence? And what is the state of your mind at that moment with regard to the issue at hand?
No one can “choose” to believe in leprechauns because there is no truth to respond to.
If you know the truth about something it's too late to choose to believe it because you alredy do.
 

rstrats

Member
Site Supporter
You’ve gone and shifted the goalpost again.
What goalpost has been changed?
Belief isn’t a physical skill that can be performed on command. It’s the mind responding to truth when confronted with it. You demonstrate belief by accepting truth, rejecting falsehood, and acting on conviction. If you’re asking for something else, then you’re no longer asking about belief as Scripture defines it.
How does scripture define it? I define it as a conviction that someone or something does or doesn't exist or that a certain proposition is or isn't true.
 

Anthony Pritchard

Active Member
It has to be. You can't believe something and at the same time not believe the same something. There has to an instant when the one state of mind changes to the other.

If a belief can be engendered by simply choosing to have it, then thick air/evidence is not necessary - prudent in some cases maybe - but not necessary.

How do you know when you have enough evidence? And what is the state of your mind at that moment with regard to the issue at hand?

If you know the truth about something it's too late to choose to believe it because you alredy do.
Not to get drawn into your revolving circle of definitions, but...

You’re assuming that belief is a binary switch that flips in a single instant. But Scripture never defines belief as an instantaneous mental event. It defines belief as assent to truth when confronted with it. The moment of assent may be brief, but the process is not a magical flip, it’s the mind responding to truth.

You also keep assuming that choosing to believe means “creating conviction out of thin air.” That isn’t what anyone is claiming. Belief responds to truth, evidence, testimony, and the illumination of the Spirit. Choosing to believe simply means choosing to accept truth when it is presented, not inventing truth where none exists.

As for “how much evidence” is needed, that varies by person and by issue. But the state of mind at the moment of belief is simple: the person accepts the truth of the matter. That acceptance is the act of belief. It isn’t a performance, and it isn’t instantaneous imagination, it’s assent.

And again, no one can choose to believe in leprechauns because there is no truth to respond to. Belief responds to truth, not fantasy.
What goalpost has been changed?

How does scripture define it? I define it as a conviction that someone or something does or doesn't exist or that a certain proposition is or isn't true.
You’re asking what goalpost changed. You shifted from asking for a demonstration of choosing belief to asking for a definition of belief itself. Those are not the same question.

As for how Scripture defines belief: It does so consistently, it presents belief as assent to truth when confronted with it. Abraham “believed God.” The Samaritans “believed His word.” The jailer “believed on the Lord Jesus Christ.” In every case, belief is accepting the truth of what God has said. It is not defined as an instantaneous mental flip, nor as conjuring conviction out of thin air.

Your definition, “a conviction that something is or isn’t true”, is fine as far as it goes, but it doesn’t address the question you originally asked. The issue isn’t the definition of belief; the issue is whether a person can accept truth when it is presented. Scripture says they can, and it commands them to do so.
 

Anthony Pritchard

Active Member
What goalpost has been changed?

How does scripture define it? I define it as a conviction that someone or something does or doesn't exist or that a certain proposition is or isn't true.
Friend, you’re not engaging anymore. You’re cycling through a fixed set of definitions, and once those are exhausted the conversation can’t progress.

At this point the only moves remaining for you are repeating the same slogans, re‑asking the same questions, redefining the same terms, or shifting to a new angle that still leads back to the same loop.

Your options now are simple: define belief the way Scripture actually uses the term, or retreat into a private dictionary, or change the subject. I’ve had this exact exchange more times than I can count over the last forty years, and I can almost anticipate your replies before you post them.

It’s time to give this one a rest and let it go.
 
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