UnChristian laws ???

[Salty]

In another thread, melchizedeck said: "How is it different? Refugees and the parents of Jesus fled to protect their family from harm. The only difference is that the US has unChristian laws. The only difference is the existence of anti-Christian policies."

So Melchizedeck - what laws are unChristian?

Open for discussion

 

[melchizedeck]

In another thread, melchizedeck said: "How is it different? Refugees and the parents of Jesus fled to protect their family from harm. The only difference is that the US has unChristian laws. The only difference is the existence of anti-Christian policies."

So Melchizedeck - what laws are unChristian?

Open for discussion

Laws that violate the teachings of Christ. Christians have created a culture, especially here in the United States, of believing you can vote for any policy or politician you want, because that's just voting. Church members might be feeding the homeless in their ministry, while talking about how the US shouldn't help an island nation devastated by a hurricane because they probably wouldn't help us if we ever need it.

Many have rationalized secular thinking and compartmentalizing it from their faith to the point some push for politics that are the opposite of their faith. There are many Christians that believe making it harder to be poor will help make people less poor, this is Ayn Rand, not Jesus.The Christian solution to the immigration crisis as people flee violence at home is build a wall and ignore the suffering. We know perfectly well that is NOT want Jesus would have us do. A Christian would reply - so you are saying we should just open the border and let everyone in. Obviously, we have more than two choices. However, that is one of the ways they rationalize unChristian attitudes. Anything less than an unChristian viewpoint can be immediately compared to socialism, communism or some extreme absurdity.

This country had slavery and the institution was fully rationalized by Christians. Many views of Christians are not from the spirit of Christ, or informed by their faith, rather they come from the darkness in the heart of men that is so twisted it makes itself appear compatible with faith.

 

[GoodTidings]

Laws that violate the teachings of Christ. Christians have created a culture, especially here in the United States, of believing you can vote for any policy or politician you want, because that's just voting. Church members might be feeding the homeless in their ministry, while talking about how the US shouldn't help an island nation devastated by a hurricane because they probably wouldn't help us if we ever need it.

When have Christians ever thought or said something like that?

Many have rationalized secular thinking and compartmentalizing it from their faith to the point some push for politics that are the opposite of their faith. There are many Christians that believe making it harder to be poor will help make people less poor, this is Ayn Rand, not Jesus.

Wrong. We want to make it harder for people who are mentally and physically capable of holding down a job, to live off of the backs of hard working people. No one is trying to make it harder to be poor, but there are those who exploit and abuse our charity and we simply want to put a stop to it. People who abuse our charity are stealing resources from the poor who cannot work and need our help. If you are poor simply because you are lazy, you don't need our help; you need to go get a job and work for a living.

The Christian solution to the immigration crisis as people flee violence at home is build a wall and ignore the suffering.

They are not fleeing violence. They are being paid by George Soros and Co. to flood our borders in a bid to destroy our border, our national sovereignty and promote globalism. They are promised all kinds of free stuff if they make it up here. If they simply wanted to flee violence, they could stay in Mexico. Mexico offered them asylum, housing and jobs. Their problems at home are not America's problems to solve.

We know perfectly well that is NOT want Jesus would have us do.

Jesus would want us to help those genuinely in need. But we are also commanded to be wise as serpents. We are not to allow ourselves to be taken advantage of. We are not to allow our charity to be abused.

A Christian would reply - so you are saying we should just open the border and let everyone in. Obviously, we have more than two choices. However, that is one of the ways they rationalize unChristian attitudes. Anything less than an unChristian viewpoint can be immediately compared to socialism, communism or some extreme absurdity.

Well that is pretty much what you are advocating. You are advocating open borders, that we should just let everyone in because that is what you think Jesus would do.

This is a national sovereignty issue, not a religious issue.

Tell you what... Right now, down there south of the border, the drug cartels are doubling as human traffickers. People are buying children to use them to get into our country illegally. When you visit your perfection on those people who are abusing and molesting/raping women and children, then you have something to say about our borders.

This country had slavery and the institution was fully rationalized by Christians. Many views of Christians are not from the spirit of Christ, or informed by their faith, rather they come from the darkness in the heart of men that is so twisted it makes itself appear compatible with faith.

No one here today is rationalizing slavery and no one here today in this country is a slave or a slave owner. So trying to condemn us for the sins of the past is the sign of a weak minded argument.

Slavery is still going on over in Muslim countries. Let's see you find your outrage about slavery that is still happening several parts of the world TODAY.

 

[melchizedeck]

When have Christians ever thought or said something like that?

Often when two or more gather in the United States.

Wrong. We want to make it harder for people who are mentally and physically capable of holding down a job, to live off of the backs of hard working people. No one is trying to make it harder to be poor, but there are those who exploit and abuse our charity and we simply want to put a stop to it. People who abuse our charity are stealing resources from the poor who cannot work and need our help. If you are poor simply because you are lazy, you don't need our help; you need to go get a job and work for a living.

People are generally not poor because they are lazy. They are poor because of poor life skills. Many lack the ability to hold down a job. For example, people can start a new job and within a few months, have a child that gets sick, is forced to stay home for three days, and loses their job.

It is commonly promoted among anti-poor so-called Christians that people are poor because they are lazy. Only a person that is emotionally or mentally incapacitated would prefer not to work. Many Christians make bad life decisions and have jobs they hate. Instead of improving themselves, they make themselves feel better for heir misery by finding people more pathetic than they are to hate and make miserable.

They are not fleeing violence. They are being paid by George Soros and Co. to flood our borders in a bid to destroy our border,

What is your source for this claim?

Jesus would want us to help those genuinely in need. But we are also commanded to be wise as serpents. We are not to allow ourselves to be taken advantage of. We are not to allow our charity to be abused.

"Build that wall" is not "use our resource wisely." Instead of accepting the fact that people are fleeing real and proven violence within Central America, you are resorting to promoting conspiracy theories. Christians will resort to all kinds of mental gymnastics to avoid asking themselves what would Jesus do.

If you imagine that you could travel back to the moment that Jesus saved the woman accused of adultery, when the crowds dispersed after being told to cast the first stone if they were without sin and ask Him: Jesus, what do we do about the refugees from Central America, do you imagine He would say, "Son, they are being paid by George Soros and Company to flood your borders in a bid to destroy them."

Well that is pretty much what you are advocating. You are advocating open borders, that we should just let everyone in because that is what you think Jesus would do.

Proving my point - I am not advocating open borders. We have choices other than to close ourselves to refugees or open the border. Jesus would be asked questions like these - that we have to pick one side or the other and each time He would cleverly answer them. We have the Holy Spirit and many Christians chose not to listen to Wisdom.

This is a national sovereignty issue, not a religious issue.

I am a Christian first, an American second. I do see clearly that some Americans are Nationalists first and Christian in name only.

Tell you what... Right now, down there south of the border, the drug cartels are doubling as human traffickers. People are buying children to use them to get into our country illegally. When you visit your perfection on those people who are abusing and molesting/raping women and children, then you have something to say about our borders.

I am a Christian first. Again, you are resorting to extremes - either you support the bad polices of the US or you support the cartels raping women and children. I am for finding ways to protect vulnerable women and children while many Christians proclaim they do not care.

No one here today is rationalizing slavery and no one here today in this country is a slave or a slave owner. So trying to condemn us for the sins of the past is the sign of a weak minded argument.

I am not condemning anyone today for slavery. I am pointing out that many church going Christians had slaves and rationalized it.

Slavery is still going on over in Muslim countries. Let's see you find your outrage about slavery that is still happening several parts of the world TODAY.

This is a distraction from the truth that Christians enslaved people while pretending to be Christians. Christians will rationalize evil politics and pretend it is separate from their faith. They will rationalize and play games instead of accepting the truth. Slavery still exists today. That is nothing but a distraction from the fact that Christians enslaved people and rationalized it.

 

[just-want-peace]

melchizedeck, are you a re-incarnation of FTW?? You sure do seem to use the same logic!?!?

 

[GoodTidings]

Often when two or more gather in the United States.

You are not qualified to judge Christians in the US and tell us that you know what they think. You are not qualified to assign motives to anyone.

People are generally not poor because they are lazy. They are poor because of poor life skills. Many lack the ability to hold down a job. For example, people can start a new job and within a few months, have a child that gets sick, is forced to stay home for three days, and loses their job.

Laziness is a poor life skill. And yes, there are other reasons than laziness, but laziness is a big one. Not managing credit card debt is another one. But that is not society's problem to solve. I have known a few people here and there that always seem to be behind the 8-ball. Nothing seems to work in their favor, but 99% of the time, it is not the case that they cannot keep a job because life keeps throwing them curve balls. You cannot blame that for poverty.

It is commonly promoted among anti-poor so-called Christians that people are poor because they are lazy. Only a person that is emotionally or mentally incapacitated would prefer not to work. Many Christians make bad life decisions and have jobs they hate. Instead of improving themselves, they make themselves feel better for heir misery by finding people more pathetic than they are to hate and make miserable.

No, I am not anti-poor. I am anti-poverty, though. I am for people getting jobs. We have an economy that has the lowest unemployment rates across the board in our history. Right now, employers are having to offer higher wages in order to attract applicants because there are more jobs than there are people to work the jobs. There is no excuse to remain poor. In this economy, you are poor because you are lazy and choose to remain that way. America is a place where you can what you want to be if you are willing to put in the hard work, the over time and make the sacrifices necessary to make it happen for you.

There are many lazy people that are 2nd and 3rd generation Welfare recipients. They learned from their parents and grandparents how to game the system. I live in a city with a lot of homeless who know how to work churches and other places that have benevolence funds because they don't want to work. They choose homelessness because, according to our law enforcement, they are hiding from child support payments or because they don't want to register as a sex offender.

What is your source for this claim?

Caravan of Illegals “Charity” Outed as George Soros Funded Group

Reports: Soros funding border caravan invasion

Soros-Funded Group Launches App to Help Illegal Aliens Avoid Feds - Judicial Watch

"Build that wall" is not "use our resource wisely." Instead of accepting the fact that people are fleeing real and proven violence within Central America, you are resorting to promoting conspiracy theories. Christians will resort to all kinds of mental gymnastics to avoid asking themselves what would Jesus do.

Living in a violent country is not a legitimate reason to enter US illegally. If you want to come to the US to escape a violent country, we have a legal process for entry into the US. You can legally immigrate and show up at the port of entry. But what these people want are free stuff. They want to sponge off of the American taxpayer without paying into the system. We have a way for them to enter. They don't have to break our laws and overwhelm our border patrol and throw rocks at them. They enter legally, get a green card, pay taxes and live as legal residents, apply for citizenship and assimilate into the United States of America.

If you imagine that you could travel back to the moment that Jesus saved the woman accused of adultery, when the crowds dispersed after being told to cast the first stone if they were without sin and ask Him: Jesus, what do we do about the refugees from Central America, do you imagine He would say, "Son, they are being paid by George Soros and Company to flood your borders in a bid to destroy them."

That is a ridiculous analogy. One is not analogous to the other. There is no comparison. It is not lacking in compassion to expect people to enter legally.

Proving my point - I am not advocating open borders. We have choices other than to close ourselves to refugees or open the border. Jesus would be asked questions like these - that we have to pick one side or the other and each time He would cleverly answer them. We have the Holy Spirit and many Christians chose not to listen to Wisdom.

Well then, you have no problem with them coming through the port of entry and entering the US the legal way. Right now, they are in violation of 8 US Code 1325. You should be encouraging them to enter the US legally instead of berating Christians for expecting them to enter the country legally.

I am a Christian first, an American second. I do see clearly that some Americans are Nationalists first and Christian in name only.

I am a patriot, which what you liberals erroneously call a "nationalist." The term "nationalist" is just the polite way of saying "Nazi." That's what Liberals have come to mean when they say, "nationalist."

I am a Christian first. Again, you are resorting to extremes - either you support the bad polices of the US or you support the cartels raping women and children. I am for finding ways to protect vulnerable women and children while many Christians proclaim they do not care.

I don't think that expecting people to enter the country legally through the port of entry and applying for citizenship is a bad policies.

I am not condemning anyone today for slavery. I am pointing out that many church going Christians had slaves and rationalized it.

Then why bring up? You are trying to compare our opposition to illegal entry into the US with slavery, as if we are rationalizing hating refugees just like people used to rationalize slavery.

This is a distraction from the truth that Christians enslaved people while pretending to be Christians.

Why do you think those slave owners were Christians. They might have been church goers, but why would that necessarily make them Christians?

Christians will rationalize evil politics and pretend it is separate from their faith.

I am not rationalizing anything. My values are both biblical and my logic is unassailable. You are coming at this from the standpoint of Liberal talking points you got from CNN or some other America-hating liberal media outlet and trying to use them here. You are the one

They will rationalize and play games instead of accepting the truth.

You haven't presented any truth, just liberal talking points, propaganda and bad analogies. You really don't know what you're talking about.

Slavery still exists today. That is nothing but a distraction from the fact that Christians enslaved people and rationalized it.

No, it shows that you don't really care about slavery. Slavery is just something you virtue signal about on this board as means of demonizing Christians over something that happened 160 years ago, while you ignore present day slavery that is taking place right under your nose.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

melchizedeck, are you a re-incarnation of FTW?? You sure do seem to use the same logic!?!?

And on the verge of employing the same unacceptable accusations.

I am a Christian first, an American second. I do see clearly that some Americans are Nationalists first and Christian in name only.

 

[GoodTidings]

And on the verge of employing the same unacceptable accusations.

I had noticed that FTW was not on for the last week or to. Melchizedec guy sounds a lot like him.

 

[37818]

Laws that violate the teachings of Christ.

Christains at large disagree on the meaning of some of Christ's teachings.

 

[37818]

. . . slavery and the institution was fully rationalized by Christians.

It was the Bible believing Christians that opposed slavery.

 

[GoodTidings]

It was the Bible believing Christians that opposed slavery.

Yes, the abolitionists were all Bible believing Christians, and many were Baptists.

 

[melchizedeck]

It was the Bible believing Christians that opposed slavery.

There were no slave holding Christians? Someone grab all the history books, and change them, they've been in error this whole time.

 

[Reynolds]

Laws that violate the teachings of Christ. Christians have created a culture, especially here in the United States, of believing you can vote for any policy or politician you want, because that's just voting. Church members might be feeding the homeless in their ministry, while talking about how the US shouldn't help an island nation devastated by a hurricane because they probably wouldn't help us if we ever need it.

Many have rationalized secular thinking and compartmentalizing it from their faith to the point some push for politics that are the opposite of their faith. There are many Christians that believe making it harder to be poor will help make people less poor, this is Ayn Rand, not Jesus.The Christian solution to the immigration crisis as people flee violence at home is build a wall and ignore the suffering. We know perfectly well that is NOT want Jesus would have us do. A Christian would reply - so you are saying we should just open the border and let everyone in. Obviously, we have more than two choices. However, that is one of the ways they rationalize unChristian attitudes. Anything less than an unChristian viewpoint can be immediately compared to socialism, communism or some extreme absurdity.

This country had slavery and the institution was fully rationalized by Christians. Many views of Christians are not from the spirit of Christ, or informed by their faith, rather they come from the darkness in the heart of men that is so twisted it makes itself appear compatible with faith.

Jesus never commanded government to be charitable. Charity is the job of the church. Send all the money you want to a devestated island, but don't send my tax money.

 

[Reynolds]

I had noticed that FTW was not on for the last week or to. Melchizedec guy sounds a lot like him.

Yep, I wonder how good the IP software is.

 

[melchizedeck]

You are not qualified to judge Christians in the US and tell us that you know what they think. You are not qualified to assign motives to anyone.

I am pointing out Christian hypocrisy in the US, which is evident, and all too common.

Laziness is a poor life skill. And yes, there are other reasons than laziness, but laziness is a big one. Not managing credit card debt is another one. But that is not society's problem to solve. I have known a few people here and there that always seem to be behind the 8-ball. Nothing seems to work in their favor, but 99% of the time, it is not the case that they cannot keep a job because life keeps throwing them curve balls. You cannot blame that for poverty.

Most people in poverty cannot even get a credit card. They use payday loans. Poverty is a culture, not a decision.

No, I am not anti-poor. I am anti-poverty, though. I am for people getting jobs. We have an economy that has the lowest unemployment rates across the board in our history. Right now, employers are having to offer higher wages in order to attract applicants because there are more jobs than there are people to work the jobs. There is no excuse to remain poor. In this economy, you are poor because you are lazy and choose to remain that way. America is a place where you can what you want to be if you are willing to put in the hard work, the over time and make the sacrifices necessary to make it happen for you.

It's nice that you know the motives of all poor people. Poor people cannot keep a job.

There are many lazy people that are 2nd and 3rd generation Welfare recipients. They learned from their parents and grandparents how to game the system. I live in a city with a lot of homeless who know how to work churches and other places that have benevolence funds because they don't want to work. They choose homelessness because, according to our law enforcement, they are hiding from child support payments or because they don't want to register as a sex offender.

There is no such thing as 2nd and 3rd generation welfare recipients. Welfare, which is actually called temporary assistance for needy families, is allowed only for up to five years. However, there is this myth that poor people are all on welfare. They aren't.

Caravan of Illegals “Charity” Outed as George Soros Funded Group

Reports: Soros funding border caravan invasion

Soros-Funded Group Launches App to Help Illegal Aliens Avoid Feds - Judicial Watch

If you follow what the conspiracy websites refer to, it is just a poorly written WorldNetDaily article, which refers to and is entirely based on this article:
AILA - The Dilley Pro Bono Project

As it turns out, no, George Soros is not funding illegal caravans.

Living in a violent country is not a legitimate reason to enter US illegally. If you want to come to the US to escape a violent country, we have a legal process for entry into the US. You can legally immigrate and show up at the port of entry. But what these people want are free stuff. They want to sponge off of the American taxpayer without paying into the system. We have a way for them to enter. They don't have to break our laws and overwhelm our border patrol and throw rocks at them. They enter legally, get a green card, pay taxes and live as legal residents, apply for citizenship and assimilate into the United States of America.

Living in a violent country where your children will end up in a drug cartel or killed by one is a valid reason to seek asylum in the United States. Accusing them of coming to the US to get 'free stuff' is completely baseless - but a commonly given reason by American Christians. Who, at the same time, complain they want to take their jobs.
If you hate your job, you might typically say the immigrants want to take free stuff.
If you don't have a job, you usually say the immigrants took your job.

That is a ridiculous analogy. One is not analogous to the other. There is no comparison. It is not lacking in compassion to expect people to enter legally.

So, if you imagine that you could travel back to the moment that Jesus saved the woman accused of adultery, when the crowds dispersed after being told to cast the first stone if they were without sin and ask Him: Jesus, what do we do about the refugees from Central America, what do you imagine He would say?

Well then, you have no problem with them coming through the port of entry and entering the US the legal way. Right now, they are in violation of 8 US Code 1325. You should be encouraging them to enter the US legally instead of berating Christians for expecting them to enter the country legally.

I am a patriot, which what you liberals erroneously call a "nationalist." The term "nationalist" is just the polite way of saying "Nazi." That's what Liberals have come to mean when they say, "nationalist."

No, a nationalist is a person that considers only their nation's interest. People will claim they are a Christian first and an American second, but clearly ignore Christian values in favor of nationalistic views.

I don't think that expecting people to enter the country legally through the port of entry and applying for citizenship is a bad policies.


Then why bring up? You are trying to compare our opposition to illegal entry into the US with slavery, as if we are rationalizing hating refugees just like people used to rationalize slavery.

Why do you think those slave owners were Christians. They might have been church goers, but why would that necessarily make them Christians?


I am not rationalizing anything. My values are both biblical and my logic is unassailable. You are coming at this from the standpoint of Liberal talking points you got from CNN or some other America-hating liberal media outlet and trying to use them here. You are the one

You haven't presented any truth, just liberal talking points, propaganda and bad analogies. You really don't know what you're talking about.


No, it shows that you don't really care about slavery. Slavery is just something you virtue signal about on this board as means of demonizing Christians over something that happened 160 years ago, while you ignore present day slavery that is taking place right under your nose.

The topic pertains to the fact that many Christians vote against their faith.

You have referred to the poor as lazy.
You claimed people have lived on welfare over generations. - Which is not possible under TANF.
You have said George Soros is funding caravans. I showed this is not the case.

This topic began by my pointing out that Christians violate the parable of the Sheep and the Goats:

"But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. Before him all the nations will be gathered, and he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will tell those on his right hand, ‘Come, blessed of my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry, and you gave me food to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me drink. I was a stranger, and you took me in. I was naked, and you clothed me. I was sick, and you visited me. I was in prison, and you came to me.’

It is an interesting parable because the goats didn't see that they ever did anything wrong. They did not see Christ...
when He was hungry
when He was thirsty
when He was a stranger
when He was naked
when He was sick
when He was in prison

Christians rationalize not seeing Christ.

 

[37818]

There were no slave holding Christians?

That was not what I said. I said that it was the Bible believing Christains who were against slavery.

 

[melchizedeck]

That was not what I said. I said that it was the Bible believing Christains who were against slavery.

Absolutely. Most people that lived in states that allowed slavery didn't even own slaves. However, slave holding Christians rationalized slavery. Their rationalization was so strong that even people that did not own slaves believed it was okay.

 

[melchizedeck]

Jesus never commanded government to be charitable. Charity is the job of the church. Send all the money you want to a devestated island, but don't send my tax money.

That's a perfect example of what I am writing about - the compartmentalization of faith and politics. People can support Christian values privately and worldly values publicly.

 

[melchizedeck]

melchizedeck, are you a re-incarnation of FTW?? You sure do seem to use the same logic!?!?

If you are asking me if I am an existing member, I am not. I do know this is a common derailment tactic in internet discussions. Therefore, you are welcome to create a new topic about this or discuss it with the moderating staff.

 

[Reynolds]

That's a perfect example of what I am writing about - the compartmentalization of faith and politics. People can support Christian values privately and worldly values publicly.

Charity is not the job of government. Government doing the job of the church takes away the ministry opportunity of the church.
I believe in limited government. Limited to the scope of the vision of the framers of The Constitution.