Unconditional Election Acts 13:48

[Reformed1689]

Acts 13:48 clearly states that those who were "appointed" to eternal life believed. Clearly this means that BEFORE THEIR BELIEF they were appointed to eternal life. They were already part of the elect predestined to believe.

This was not an appointment because God saw that they would believe, the verse says that they believed because they were appointed to eternal life.

 

[InTheLight]

John 20:31 clearly says that once you believe you get eternal life.

John 20:31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Ephesians 1:13 clearly says that after you heard the gospel and once you believe you are sealed by the Holy Spirit

Eph. 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise


Romans 10:9-10 clearly says if you believe in the Lord Jesus, you will be saved

Rom. 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


Romans 1:16 clearly says if one believes they will be saved.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

 

[Reformed1689]

John 20:31 clearly says that once you believe you get eternal life.

John 20:31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Ephesians 1:13 clearly says that after you heard the gospel and once you believe you are sealed by the Holy Spirit

Eph. 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise


Romans 10:9-10 clearly says if you believe in the Lord Jesus, you will be saved

Rom. 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


Romans 1:16 clearly says if one believes they will be saved.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

And none of that changes what I said in the OP does it? I affirm everything you just said and the OP still stands.

 

[Revmitchell]

Acts 13:48 is part of a larger narrative and is a poor place to use a single verse to develop a doctrine from. The context here is a comparison of the Jews who rejected the gospel and the Gentiles who were predisposed to accept it. The use of the word appointed does not have to mean that someone else in authority over them decided for them what they would do.

They are the Gentiles and they were appointed as in Gentiles were appointed to the gospel. They Gentiles could now hear, know, and believe the gospel and be saved. That is the context of this entire passage. It is not about individual people being chosen to be regenerated against their will, in order to change their will to want to be saved.

 

[Reformed1689]

Acts 13:48 is part of a larger narrative and is a poor place to use a single verse to develop a doctrine from.

I would agree with you, if, in fact, we only used this one verse to develop this doctrine.

The context here is a comparison of the Jews who rejected the gospel and the Gentiles who were predisposed to accept it. The use of the word appointed does not have to mean that someone else in authority over them decided for them what they would do.

It does show that they were elected though and it had nothing to do with their foreseen belief.

They are the Gentiles and they were appointed as in Gentiles were appointed to the gospel. They Gentiles could now hear, know, and believe the gospel and be saved. That is the context of this entire passage. It is not about individual people being chosen to be regenerated against their will, in order to change their will to want to be saved.

It absolutely is about individuals in context. Read it again.

 

[Revmitchell]

I would agree with you, if, in fact, we only used this one verse to develop this doctrine.

You did in this thread.

It does show that they were elected though and it had nothing to do with their foreseen belief.

I have never claimed it did. That is not my view.

It absolutely is about individuals in context. Read it again.

No its not. Again the context is the comparison between the disbelieving Jews and the Gentiles who believed. The context is the groups not individuals.

 

[MartyF]

Acts 13:48 clearly states that those who were "appointed" to eternal life believed. Clearly this means that BEFORE THEIR BELIEF they were appointed to eternal life. They were already part of the elect predestined to believe.

This was not an appointment because God saw that they would believe, the verse says that they believed because they were appointed to eternal life.

Well, first, you're only using Acts 13:48b. Luke - the Calvinist.

Luke 1:1-4 NLT
Many people have set out to write accounts about the events that have been fulfilled among us. [2] They used the eyewitness reports circulating among us from the early disciples. [3] Having carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I also have decided to write an accurate account for you, most honorable Theophilus, [4] so you can be certain of the truth of everything you were taught.

Luke is a reporter. He simply is reporting the event. He doesn't try to explain them.

In Acts 5:1-11, everyone would love to know - Did God kill them or did Peter kill them? Luke doesn't ad lib. He simply says they die. So lets look at the rest of Luke's writings? Did he believe that everything including every finger twitch was caused by God?

I'll critique Luke's writings like a good and proper Calvinist to find out.

Luke 1:3 NLT
Having carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I also have decided to write an accurate account for you, most honorable Theophilus,

"I have decided" WHAT!!!!??? How did he decide anything? If he was a good Calvinist he would have said "God decided that I should write". This is not a good start. He hasn't even started the story yet and he's getting Calvinism wrong.

Luke 1:6,20 NLT
Zechariah and Elizabeth were righteous in God’s eyes, careful to obey all of the Lord’s commandments and regulations.

[20] But now, since you didn’t believe what I said, you will be silent and unable to speak until the child is born. For my words will certainly be fulfilled at the proper time.”

He didn't Believe!!!!! But he was righteous!!!??? Every good Calvinist knows that God forces belief onto people like a rapist. People don't get a choice. They are forced to believe. Luke is not being very Calviny. Bad Luke. BAAAAaaaad Luke!

Luke 2:52 NLT
Jesus grew in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and all the people.

Oh noes! Doesn't Luke know the simple Calvinist ideas of divine simplicity, omniscience, ineffability? Why didn't Luke read some R.C. Sproul? If Jesus is God he can't possibly grow in wisdom. Jesus was wiser at 21 than he was at 14? Come on Luke. Get your theology right! And he grew in favor with God? What!? I don't know what that is but it's definitely not divine simplicity.

Luke 7:12-13 NLT
A funeral procession was coming out as he approached the village gate. The young man who had died was a widow’s only son, and a large crowd from the village was with her. [13] When the Lord saw her, his heart overflowed with compassion. “Don’t cry!” he said.

Huh?! Hasn't Luke read the Westminster confession of faith! Doesn't Luke know about the Impassibility of God? Is Luke anthropomorphizing? Just because Jesus became human, doesn't give you license to anthropomorphize Luke!

Luke 8:32 NLT
There happened to be a large herd of pigs feeding on the hillside nearby, and the demons begged him to let them enter into the pigs. So Jesus gave them permission.

Permission? PERMISSION! Every good Calvinist knows that God not only has declared our actions, but also our will. We aren't even able to believe with him without his making it happen. Permission . . . Luke, straighten up!

Luke 8:45-46 NLT
“Who touched me?” Jesus asked. Everyone denied it, and Peter said, “Master, this whole crowd is pressing up against you.” [46] But Jesus said, “Someone deliberately touched me, for I felt healing power go out from me.”

This must be a repeat of the Garden of Eden all over again . . . Jesus' wisdom grew . . . ICK!

Luke 9:1 NLT
One day Jesus called together his twelve disciples and gave them power and authority to cast out all demons and to heal all diseases.

Again Luke? What are you? An open theist? Jesus gave others power and authority!? Luke you need to explain the Calvinism properly. God hordes all power over everything. The disciples didn't have authority over their own will, much more demons and diseases! GOD IS SOVEREIGN! And as any good Calvinist knows that means God has to control every little twitch of a finger or he is no longer sovereign!

Ok, ok, ok. This is taking a bit long. Any good Calvinist knows that one should never read scripture outside the approved Pamphlet, so let's just fast forward to the 13th chapter. Luke won't deviate from Calvinism in that chapter, I'm sure.

Acts 13:12 NLT
When the governor saw what had happened, he became a believer, for he was astonished at the teaching about the Lord.

Ugh. Luke, the governor became a believer because God chose him to do that since before the beginning of time - not because he "saw what had happened" and "was astonished at the teaching about the Lord." Come one Luke, couldn't you keep to Calvinism in the same chapter?

So, unfortunately, Luke failed the Calvinism test and is not Calvinist. I guess I'll have to seriously read the 48th verse instead of just half of it to see what Luke likely meant and not pollute it with Calvinistic mumbo jumbo.

Acts 13:48 NLT
When the Gentiles heard this, they were very glad and thanked the Lord for his message; and all who were chosen for eternal life became believers.

The verse starts out with the Gentiles being very glad and thankful to the Lord for his message!

It doesn't start with them being chosen since before time.

So:

1. When the Gentiles heard this, they were very glad and thanked the Lord for his message
2. all who were chosen for eternal life became believers

There was a proper response from the Gentiles before God chose them for salvation. That's the simplest reading. There are other readings by other non-Calvinists, but in order to get the Calvinist interpretation, you have to cut the verse in half and divorce it from the rest of Luke's writings.

 

[Dave G]

John 20:31 clearly says that once you believe you get eternal life.

I disagree.

" And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 but these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name." ( John 20:30-31 ).

Truly, everyone who believes will have life through His name.
This does not say that by believing, people shall have life through His name.

It says that the signs were written, so that the reader might believe that Jesus is the Christ...
And that, believing, they might have life through His name.

The Scriptures give hope ( Romans 15:4 ) to them that truly believe, from the heart ( Romans 10:9-10 ).

Ephesians 1:13 clearly says that after you heard the gospel and once you believe you are sealed by the Holy Spirit

Agreed.

However, that does not address passages like Acts of the Apostles 13:48, Psalms 65:4, Romans 8:29-30, John 6:29, John 6:39, John 6:65, John 17:2, Ephesians 1:4-5, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, and many others.
God's elect "hear" His words ( See John 5:24 ), believe on Christ and are sealed ( indwelt ), with the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13 does not deal with God's miraculous act of changing the heart...only the indwelling of His Spirit as Comforter and "earnest" ( down payment ) of their inheritance.

Romans 10:9-10 clearly says if you believe in the Lord Jesus, you will be saved

Romans 10:9-10 is addressed to those who had already believed, and it was to them that Paul was making the assurance...

" Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved." ( Romans 10:1 ).

Skipping down a few verses, we see this:

" But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." ( Romans 10:8-13 ).

He is assuring the Roman believers ( who have already believed on Christ ) of their place at God's table, and declaring that all those who call upon the name of the Lord, shall BE saved...not BECOME ( go from darkness to light ) saved.
If becoming born again were by man's will and efforts, that would contradict John 1:13 as well as James 1:18.
God's will determines who is born again, not man's.

Romans 1:16 clearly says if one believes they will be saved.

Again I disagree.

" For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." ( Romans 1:16 ).

This is a declaration, not a process by which one can become born again.
It is declaring that the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation...
To every one that believes.

Those that make up Christ's sheep are both Jew and Gentile.
Being the power of God to some people, and foolishness to others, is explained in 1 Corinthians 1:18:
" For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."

Two groups are represented in this passage...

1) "Them that perish" ( the lost ),
and
2) "Us which are saved".

To one, the preaching of the cross is foolishness.
Their sins neither bother them ( Romans 1:31-32, Ephesians 4:17-19 ), nor do they care that God is offended by them.


Be assured that everyone reading this that believes, deep down, that they are vile before God because of their sins, can take comfort in knowing that we all have hope in Christ Jesus...we are saved.
The preaching of the cross is not foolishness to us, but rather, it is the power of God.

The same as in Romans 1:16.
The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation...to everyone that believes.

The saved.

It is not the power of God to those who are not saved.

 

[Dave G]

all who were chosen for eternal life became believers

2. all who were chosen for eternal life became believers

I agree.

The Scripture you posted tells the reason why they believed...
They were chosen for eternal life.

This agrees with other Scriptures:

Psalms 65:4.
John 6:29.
John 6:39.
John 6:65.
John 10:26 ( tells the reason why they did not believe ).
Romans 8:29-30.
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14.

There was a proper response from the Gentiles before God chose them for salvation.

Not according to the passage there wasn't.
He point-blank tells the reader why they believed.

The fact that they, as a group, glorified the word of the Lord, is only part of it.
The reason why they believed is precisely how you have laid it out, and according to the very words on the page.
Because again, they were chosen for eternal life.

That is what is written.

Only those chosen for eternal life, believed.
It's no more complicated than that, Marty.

 

[Dave G]

Acts 13:48 is part of a larger narrative and is a poor place to use a single verse to develop a doctrine from.

I agree.

While Acts is a narrative, if one is looking, one can find several places that God declares His control over who is saved and who is not:

1) " For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call." ( Acts of the Apostles 2:39 ). <----- The promise of salvation is to as many as the Lord our God shall call.
2) " praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved." ( Acts of the Apostles 2:47 ). <---- The Lord added to the church, daily, such as should be saved.

Other parts of the narrative in Acts include details that emphasize how and why God saves someone.
For example, Acts of the Apostles 16:14 tells us that God opened Lydia's heart, so that she listened to Paul's words.

This agrees with doctrinal passages like John 8:43-47, Matthew 11:15 and many others that talk about having "ears to hear", Matthew 13:10, Luke 24:45 and Matthew 11:27.

The context here is a comparison of the Jews who rejected the gospel and the Gentiles who were predisposed to accept it.

"Predisposed" by whom?
Themselves?
God's word tells us that we, as a race, are predisposed against Him:

Romans 3:10-18.
Psalms 10:4.
John 3:19-20.

Therefore, no one is "predisposed" towards God, nor do we predispose ourselves towards Him.

In addition, 1 Corinthians 1:18 clearly says that "them that are perishing" think that the preaching of the cross is foolishness.
How then could anyone other than God's children, be pre-disposed?

However, if you're saying that they were pre-disposed by God Himself, then I agree.

The use of the word appointed does not have to mean that someone else in authority over them decided for them what they would do.

In this case it does.

It clearly states that "as many as were ordained" ( appointed ) "to eternal life"...believed.
With respect, it does not say that they appointed themselves.

To me, that has to be read into the passage...
Not out of it.

They Gentiles could now hear, know, and believe the gospel and be saved.

He that is "of God" are the only ones who "hear" God's words ( John 8:43-47 ).
How could all of the Gentiles present that day "hear" ( Matthew 11:15 ), based on that limitation?

That is the context of this entire passage. It is not about individual people being chosen to be regenerated against their will, in order to change their will to want to be saved.

That is precisely what it is teaching, but only in "capsule" form.

...and it is the only way that rebellious, sin-loving men would ever want to give up their sins and seek God, from the heart.
Because of the miraculous gift of the new birth ( Titus 3:5-6 ).

The context is the groups not individuals.

The context is individuals...
"As many as were ordained" limits the number of individuals in the group of Gentiles in attendance that day.

God's grace be upon you, sir.

 

[Revmitchell]

I agree.

While Acts is a narrative, if one is looking, one can find several places that God declares His control over who is saved and who is not:

" For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call." ( Acts of the Apostles 2:39 ). <----- The promise of salvation is to as many as the Lord our God shall call.

" praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved." ( Acts of the Apostles 2:47 ). <---- The Lord added to the church, daily, such as should be saved.

Other parts of the narrative in Acts include details that emphasize how and why God saves someone.
For example, Acts of the Apostles 16:14 tells us that God opened Lydia's heart, so that she listened to Paul's words.

This agrees with doctrinal passages like John 8:43-47, Matthew 11:15 and many others that talk about having "ears to hear", Matthew 13:10, Luke 24:45 and Matthew 11:27.

I agree with all of those passages, God is in control. I have never said otherwise.

"Predisposed" by whom?
Themselves?
God's word tells us that we, as a race, are predisposed against Him:

Romans 3:10-18.
Psalms 10:4.
John 3:19-20.

If you look in the whole story they were already wanting to worship God they just had not yet heard the gospel of Jesus. Since they were already looking to worship God prior to hearing about Jesus, they were predisposed to hear. I did not suggest by whom in any way. Please do not read into my posts because you think you know what my position is. You create a strawman that way.

1 Corinthians 1:18 clearly says that "them that are perishing" think that the preaching of the cross is foolishness.
How then could anyone other than God's children, be pre-disposed?

However, if you're saying that they were pre-disposed by God Himself, then I agree.

In this case it does.

It clearly states that "as many as were ordained" ( appointed ) "to eternal life"...believed.
With respect, it does not say that they appointed themselves.

To me, that has to be read into the passage...not out of it.

The phrase "to eternal life" does not make your case. I just disagree.

He that is "of God" are the only ones who "hear" God's words ( John 8:43-47 ).
How could all of them "hear" ( Matthew 11:15 ), based on that limitation?

Sorry I believe my reformed brethren get many of the book of John passages they hold on to as proof texts wrong. I don't want to get off track away from the Acts 13 passage so I will leave it at that.

That is precisely what it is teaching.

No its not.

The context is individuals...
"As many as were ordained" limits the number of individuals in the group of Gentiles in attendance that day.

God's grace be upon you, sir.

Yep the group of Gentiles.

 

[Dave G]

The phrase "to eternal life" does not make your case. I just disagree.

I know that you disagree, and that is, of course, your privilege.
However, "ordained to eternal life" means..."ordained to eternal life".

Again, and as I said to Marty, it really is no more complicated than that.
As many as were ordained to eternal life, believed.

Not the group.

How many did not believe?
As many as were not ordained to eternal life.

Those that were not His sheep ( John 10:26 ).

Sorry I believe my reformed brethren get many of the book of John passages they hold on to as proof texts wrong. I don't want to get off track away from the Acts 13 passage so I will leave it at that.

The other passages lend support to the Acts 13 passage.

It all fits together as a whole ( Matthew 4:4, Luke 4:4 ) to give a composite picture of how and why people believe on Christ, from the heart, and why they do not.
In fact, no one word of God can be separated from any other...

They are all God's words, and they are all equally important.

Yep the group of Gentiles.

Yes...
As many in the group that were ordained to eternal life, believed.

As I see it, by making the statement that they were "predisposed to accept it", overlooks the truth found in Romans 3:11, Psalms 10:4 and John 3:19-20 that there is no one who is disposed to seek God, or to worship Him.
In fact, men hate Jesus Christ ( Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:9, John 15:18 ), and will not come to the Light, lest their deeds should be reproved ( corrected, again see John 3:19-20 ).
If anyone seeks God, it is because He caused it ( Psalms 65:4 ).

I'll take my leave of this thread now, because I already know your position, Mark.
I was a "Traditionalist" for a very long time, and that is all that I sat under for the first 25 years after believing the Gospel of my salvation.
I'm of the firm belief that I know the position very well, even if you do not think that I do.

I'm also not trying to convince you.

I gave that up very shortly after joining this forum.
What I'm actually doing is responding to your comments for the benefit of any reader who may be watching, in the hope of the Scriptures themselves doing the work.
But I do still hold hope that someday, He will show you what He has shown me...

That it really is all of grace.
All the more to praise Him for His mercy to us, as sinners.


May God, in His great mercy, show you many important truths from His word, and bless you out of His goodness to you.

 

[utilyan]

47“For so the Lord has commanded us,
‘I HAVE PLACED YOU AS A LIGHT FOR THE GENTILES,
THAT YOU MAY BRING SALVATION TO THE END OF THE EARTH.’”

48When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.


"THAT YOU MAY BRING SALVATION TO THE END OF THE EARTH.’"

Thats how many has been appointed


Luke 7
30But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God’s purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John.

These guys were appointed too.

 

[4calvinism]

47“For so the Lord has commanded us,
‘I HAVE PLACED YOU AS A LIGHT FOR THE GENTILES,
THAT YOU MAY BRING SALVATION TO THE END OF THE EARTH.’”

48When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.


"THAT YOU MAY BRING SALVATION TO THE END OF THE EARTH.’"

Thats how many has been appointed


Luke 7
30But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God’s purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John.

These guys were appointed too.

Appointed to eternal life?

 

[InTheLight]

Appointed to eternal life?

John baptized sinners for repentance and the forgiveness of sins, with the promise of Jesus coming to be the savior. Mark 1:4; Matt 3:1-6, 11; Luke 3:3

What was Peter's answer to the Jews that were convicted in their heart of their sin of killing Jesus?

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Since God is "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9) yes, the Pharisees rejected God's purpose for them, i.e. being forgiven of sins and baptized.

 

[4calvinism]

I had a feeling you were going to run all over except deal with Luke 7 specificall. A proof texter never fails to disappoint

 

[InTheLight]

I had a feeling you were going to run all over except deal with Luke 7 specificall. A proof texter never fails to disappoint

John baptized sinners for repentance and the forgiveness of sins, with the promise of Jesus coming to be the savior. Mark 1:4; Matt 3:1-6, 11; Luke 3:3.

God desired that the Pharisees would repent and be baptized by John for the forgiveness of sins. The Pharisees did not do that.

Therefore:
But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the will of God for themselves, not having been baptized by him. Luke 7:30

 

[Scott Downey]

John 20:31 clearly says that once you believe you get eternal life.

John 20:31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Ephesians 1:13 clearly says that after you heard the gospel and once you believe you are sealed by the Holy Spirit

Eph. 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise


Romans 10:9-10 clearly says if you believe in the Lord Jesus, you will be saved

Rom. 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


Romans 1:16 clearly says if one believes they will be saved.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

Sure, but none of those verse say WHY you did believe. The ones that do, you dispute the meaning? As they point to God foreknowing us and then predestining us to be His. For whom He foreknew, God foreknows people personally as in love, not something they did. We do not make ourselves acceptable to Him and can not do so, as the carnal mind is at war, enmity , hatred with God..

Enmity means this
'the state or feeling of being actively opposed or hostile to someone or something.'

Romans 8:7-9 New King James Version (NKJV)
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.

8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

 

[InTheLight]

Sure, but none of those verse say WHY you did believe. The ones that do, you dispute the meaning?

Yes, why do people believe?

John 2:23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.

John 4:39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed in Him because of the word of the woman who testified, “He told me all that I ever did.”

John 4:53 So the father knew that it was at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son lives: and himself believed, and his whole house.

John 11:45 Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him.

As they point to God foreknowing us and then predestining us to be His. For whom He foreknew, God foreknows people personally as in love, not something they did. We do not make ourselves acceptable to Him and can not do so, as the carnal mind is at war, enmity , hatred with God

You are limiting the definition of "foreknow" to mean God only knowing people and not future events.

John 6:64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.

 

[Scott Downey]

Yes, why do people believe?

John 2:23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.

John 4:39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed in Him because of the word of the woman who testified, “He told me all that I ever did.”

John 4:53 So the father knew that it was at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son lives: and himself believed, and his whole house.

John 11:45 Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him.



You are limiting the definition of "foreknow" to mean God only knowing people and not future events.

John 6:64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.

I limit foreknow to people and not what deeds they did as it is what Romans 8 says in regards to salvation according to love and mercy. As does Peter and Ephesians say the same things.
Whom He foreknew as in a relationship, it is not what He knew.

Romans 8
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Those whom He foreknew as His as in individuals that He loved with a great love, He predestined to be conformed to Christ. Over and over you see this about whom God loves and shows mercy to. Sure He knows what they did, but to stay with what the scripture says, it mentions the love, as in compassion and therefore mercy is why we were believers.

Those whom He foreknew get saved. God works all things, He creates all the circumstances in their life to bring the foreknown ones to Him that He foreknew in His great love, including opening their hearts to believe. For with the heart a man believed unto righteousness. Without the new heart, without the teaching of the Holy Spirit, you will not believe. Those who are 'of God', meaning God is at work in them, made them born again, they are the ones who hear God and obey the gospel. If you do not hear, then you are not of God, meaning God is not at work in you, and you will never believe, you will remain a slave of sin and Satan.