Unconditional Election

[TCassidy]

You added verse 13 and claimed it is verse 12. Why? And yes that is what it says and it is what I said it says.

Yes, it is called "context." "A text, out of context, is a pretext." The "Born of God" pretty much proves you wrong. Context tends to do that to you fairly often.

Your attempt here has failed.

I am sorry you did not understand the progressive nature of salvation, but I dumbed it down as much as I could.

 

[utilyan]

All I hear is folks saying every time you sin ITS GOD's FAULT, for not providing you with capacity to not sin.


1 Corinthians 10

13No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.

According to scripture God always provides the the capacity to avoid sin. And when you do sin it is not a special treatment you falling to what is common to man.


COMMON TO MAN, capacity. God is faithful who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able to handle.

James 1

13Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.


God is not EVIL. He is not someone who is ALLOWED to do EVIL, DOES EVIL, THEN we communist call it GOOD.

No GOD IS GOOD, Genuinely does GOOD, And if you do anything his way it is THE RIGHT way to do things.

 

[Yeshua1]

All I hear is folks saying every time you sin ITS GOD's FAULT, for not providing you with capacity to not sin.


1 Corinthians 10

13No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.

According to scripture God always provides the the capacity to avoid sin. And when you do sin it is not a special treatment you falling to what is common to man.


COMMON TO MAN, capacity. God is faithful who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able to handle.

James 1

13Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.


God is not EVIL. He is not someone who is ALLOWED to do EVIL, DOES EVIL, THEN we communist call it GOOD.

No GOD IS GOOD, Genuinely does GOOD, And if you do anything his way it is THE RIGHT way to do things.

Have you obtained sinless perfection yet?

 

[TCassidy]

All I hear is folks saying every time you sin ITS GOD's FAULT, for not providing you with capacity to not sin.

I have read the entire forum and I can't find anyone who has said that.

Could you give me a thread title and post number where it was said that our sin in God's fault because He didn't provide us with the capacity to not sin? (Which, of course, He did. That is what the New Nature and indwelling of the Holy Spirit is all about.)

 

[Revmitchell]

Yes, it is called "context." "A text, out of context, is a pretext." The "Born of God" pretty much proves you wrong. Context tends to do that to you fairly often.[/quote[

No no, you said it was all verse 12 then tried to pass it off as such. You said nothing about context. Sorry your debate tactic fails again. Further, verse 13 in no way contradicts the context in which I presented verse 12 and your presuppostion of what that context is remains unexplained by you, only presupposed.

I am sorry you did not understand the progressive nature of salvation, but I dumbed it down as much as I could.

Its a shame you cannot admit your presupposition. Which you and other reformed folks do quite often and which you have done again in this post. Really it smacks as a debate tactic rather than honest discussion.

 

[Yeshua1]

All I hear is folks saying every time you sin ITS GOD's FAULT, for not providing you with capacity to not sin.


1 Corinthians 10

13No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.

According to scripture God always provides the the capacity to avoid sin. And when you do sin it is not a special treatment you falling to what is common to man.


COMMON TO MAN, capacity. God is faithful who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able to handle.

James 1

13Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.


God is not EVIL. He is not someone who is ALLOWED to do EVIL, DOES EVIL, THEN we communist call it GOOD.

No GOD IS GOOD, Genuinely does GOOD, And if you do anything his way it is THE RIGHT way to do things.

God provided Adam when created a sinless nature and gave him a perfect environment, so what else did God have to do?

 

[utilyan]

Have you obtained sinless perfection yet?

I have obtained the WAY and his name is JESUS CHRIST.

When I sin it is ONLY and absolutely MY FAULT, with every capacity, privileged, ability and advantage to not doing it.

I lack NOTHING to stop me from sinning. You never have to sin ever again. God says there is NOTHING stopping you from never sinning again. The scripture speaks clearly, THERE IS NO TEMPTATION you deal with that you are not able to handle. You are able to handle ALL TEMPTATIONS. Only YOU decide when you want to SIN. God does not tempt you, God doesn't say well today YOU WILL SIN. Only YOU say I will sin today.

There is NO BLAMING GOD, There is NO excuse.

 

[Yeshua1]

Its a shame you cannot admit your presupposition. Which you and other reformed folks do quite often and which you have done again in this post. Really it smacks as a debate tactic rather than honest discussion.

How so?

 

[Yeshua1]

I have obtained the WAY and his name is JESUS CHRIST.

When I sin it is ONLY and absolutely MY FAULT, with every capacity, privileged, ability and advantage to not doing it.

I lack NOTHING to stop me from sinning. You never have to sin ever again. God says there is NOTHING stopping you from never sinning again. The scripture speaks clearly, THERE IS NO TEMPTATION you deal with that you are not able to handle. You are able to handle ALL TEMPTATIONS. Only YOU decide when you want to SIN. God does not tempt you, God doesn't say well today YOU WILL SIN. Only YOU say I will sin today.

There is NO BLAMING GOD, There is NO excuse.

NO one here blames God for us sinning , as that is ONLY our fault!
God does not demand us to be sinless in order to get saved, does He?

 

[TCassidy]

Its a shame you cannot admit your presupposition.

I willingly admit my presuppositions. That the bible is the word of God. That's my presupposition.

Which you and other reformed folks do quite often and which you have done again in this post.

How many times do I have to say it? I. AM. NOT. REFORMED. Got it now? And my presupposition is an open book. THE. BIBLE. IS. THE. WORD. OF. GOD. When God's word says "Salvation is of the LORD" I believe it as presumptive Truth.

Really it smacks as a debate tactic rather than honest discussion.

I am sorry you cannot admit to your obvious error of conflation. I tried to show you the error of your understanding but you reject it, claiming you already know all about it, but you obviously don't understand it at all as you continue to confuse regeneration with salvation.

Here, I will try to make it as simple as I can. Regeneration is the basis of salvation.

Regeneration gives us the ability to believe, repent, and obey. Regeneration is what causes our salvation. It enables us to believe. It caused our positional salvation. It is causing our progressive salvation, and will be the cause of our permanent salvation, in heaven, free from even the presence of sin.

Let's look at a list of theological terms that are interrelated but are very different things.

Adoption, Atonement, Regeneration, Sanctification, Glorification, Imputation, Propitiation, Reconciliation, Redemption, Salvation.

These are related but very, very different things. It is like a beautiful diamond. It is one jewel with many facets. But all facets are not the same facet. Each is different and each gives it own share of beauty to the complete jewel.

Brother, I understand how utterly desperate you are to not see soteriology in a more complete manner because it would eat away at your understanding of the very important subject it is. It would force you to admit to yourself that you, a pastor/teacher, did not have as complete an understanding of spiritual things as you had previously assumed. But don't fear growth. It is what God intends for us all.

 

[Yeshua1]

I have obtained the WAY and his name is JESUS CHRIST.

When I sin it is ONLY and absolutely MY FAULT, with every capacity, privileged, ability and advantage to not doing it.

I lack NOTHING to stop me from sinning. You never have to sin ever again. God says there is NOTHING stopping you from never sinning again. The scripture speaks clearly, THERE IS NO TEMPTATION you deal with that you are not able to handle. You are able to handle ALL TEMPTATIONS. Only YOU decide when you want to SIN. God does not tempt you, God doesn't say well today YOU WILL SIN. Only YOU say I will sin today.

There is NO BLAMING GOD, There is NO excuse.

Do you still sin then?

 

[utilyan]

Do you still sin then?

is your post a sin?

 

[utilyan]

NO one here blames God for us sinning , as that is ONLY our fault!
God does not demand us to be sinless in order to get saved, does He?

God's motive to save is Love. John 3:16.

When you are finally saved you will be finally sinless.

You are being rescued, you are being healed, but you are not saved while you spit in God's face.

You certainly not regenerated while you believe you are privileged to sin above others.

 

[Mr. Davis]

All of man's being is corrupted. The difference is that God gives the ability to everyone to chose Him or reject Him. This happens at the point of salvation. I know that the Calvinists will reject this because that would destroy most of the TULIP.

No, Felipe. According to Christ, in the book of John, there is no offer or 'choice.' The only sheep that will come to Him are His. He knew them before the foundation of the world, and unconditionally calls them. They believe because the Holy Spirit has regenerated them.

I know you will reject this because your mind is closed. You are not teachable.

 

[Mr. Davis]

You added verse 13 and claimed it is verse 12. Why? And yes that is what it says and it is what I said it says.

This presupposes that regeneration and salvation are different therefore it cannot prove it.
I know you are trying to make a comparison here but you have failed. You failed because you used presuppositions in the previous claim and then you work to do the same here. I understand what Justification, Sanctification, and Glorification are but stating them individually does not prove a separation from regeneration. Your attempt here has failed.

I know you have doctrinal differences with me and TC.
But, come Rev, to your senses!
Are you seriously against allowing context to define Doctrine?
I think you, in your comments, have failed beyond remedy!

 

[Yeshua1]

God's motive to save is Love. John 3:16.

When you are finally saved you will be finally sinless.

You are being rescued, you are being healed, but you are not saved while you spit in God's face.

You certainly not regenerated while you believe you are privileged to sin above others.

we are saved fully when we received jesus thru faith, but right then starts the process to make us more into image of Christ!

 

[Felipe Rios]

No, Felipe. According to Christ, in the book of John, there is no offer or 'choice.' The only sheep that will come to Him are His. He knew them before the foundation of the world, and unconditionally calls them. They believe because the Holy Spirit has regenerated them.

I know you will reject this because your mind is closed. You are not teachable.

I disagree cause I look at scripture differently than you do. Same Word, different finding. Same Evidence different conclusions.

 

[Mr. Davis]

I disagree cause I look at scripture differently than you do. Same Word, different finding. Same Evidence different conclusions.

Actually I agree with you. A while back, rsr taught me an important lesson: it's not how much or how little we know, we may disagree;
but we are brothers, and should love one another just the same!